Your standard monster flop: nut flush draw and TP ... with a caveat

[SoCalPat]

Do you ever play a hunch? I'm not talking about playing 72o because you're *due* to flop big, but I've got this sneaking suspicion that MP2 is on the same draw as I, only a smaller one. In other words, is there any case for smooth calling the turn and trapping the BB?

Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+2 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Button folds, BB calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="CC3333">BB caps</font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, BB folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP2 calls.

River: (17.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 19.75 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 19.75 BB, between Hero and MP2.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by Hero (19.75 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero shows 3c Ac (flush, ace high).
MP2 shows Qc 5c (flush, queen high).
Outcome: Hero wins 19.75 BB. </font>

[bisonbison]

You're playing monday morning quarterback. Raising the turn is clearly correct. You didn't know that MP2 would 3-bet, and you didn't know that the BB would fold.

When BB bets the turn after capping the flop, how the hell can you smooth call the turn? Doing that on a regular basis would cost you roughly one gazillion BB.

[StellarWind]

I agree with Bison. I also think you should raise the flop unless you are sure BB is betting an ace and not a draw or a jack. You may have the best hand and you need to drive out lower pairs and gutshots. You also want to collect the maximum from OESDs and lower flush draws.

[submariner]

If you don't make the flush on the turn, how do you play?
Call and see the river as cheap as possible? Do you fold on the river if unimproved?
I understand the concept of not folding the river for one bet in a big pot, but assuming you are at the river unimproved, is there any chance you are ahead?

Still trying to overcome weak-tight tendancies, be more aggressive, but learn to let hands go at the right times.

[twomarks]

Ok - now for the stupid question...

Should someone be limping in w Axs UTG? I haven't been doing this at .5/1 since I'm out of position and can't be sure that I'm going to get enough callers (3?...4?) to justify putting my money in.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

twomarks

[B Dids]

Yes. "If you can't limp with Axs UTG, you should find another table"- Bisonbison.

And if you've got a draw to the nut flush and the board isn't paired, I'll always see the turn, depending on the action/my reads, I'll see it on pair board as well.

[bisonbison]

Yes. "If you can't limp with Axs UTG, you should find another table"- Bisonbison.

It was dynasty who said it first.

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok - now for the stupid question...

Should someone be limping in w Axs UTG? I haven't been doing this at .5/1 since I'm out of position and can't be sure that I'm going to get enough callers (3?...4?) to justify putting my money in.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a good question.

I play in the same Paradise 2/4 games as Pat. There is no use pretending this is Party. Average VP$IP is 34%. PFR is over 6%. Multiply by nine players and you are about 50-50 to be raised. I don't think limping UTG with A3s is a wise play.

Pat has not described this particular table. Obviously that could change my view. But it would need to be a pretty special table.

PLaying A3s UTG in a loose, passive 0.5/1 game is another matter entirely. But you need to play very well after the flop when you make a pair of aces and no other draw. If in doubt, don't do it. With all due respect, most of us don't play as well as Dynasty ... or even Bison.

[bisonbison]

[ QUOTE ]
or even Bison.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you've ever seen me play, you'd know that's a pretty low standard to meet.