AA and KK early in a tourney

[davidross]

What do you do with these big hands early in a tournament? Do you play them slow and try for a big score, or just be happy winning a few chips.

I had both of them tonight in the very first round while blinds were still 10/15. With AA there was a raise to 30 and a cold call to me. I made it 150 and everyone folded. Won 85 chips. Just a few hands later I'm in the BBwith KK and there are 5 limpers. I pushed all in hoping someone would play cop after my earlier raise, but again everyone folded. Won 75 chips.

Just wondering if you take a chance when the blinds are so low. I actually played a pretty good tournament tonight and was in a great spot with AK againsrt AQ in a 7,000 chip pot, but got spiked by a Q. out in 82nd.

[balt999]

Early on -- I usually make modest raises 3x or 4x the blind depending on how the table is playing..

Middle -- I'm more aggressive with them against shorter stacks...against a raiser with the same or more chips than me, I'd define my hand with a monster re-raise, hoping to disguise in case my opponents had 99-JJ or AQ would call.

Late -- Again, depending on how the table is playing. Sometimes I'll limp with AA hoping for action, but with KK, I'll always make big raises.

Against Very Aggressive players -- I'll cold calls with AA but not with Kings..against all others, I'd make huge raise.

[Chief911]

For better or for worse, I like to slowplay them through the flop. If its scary, then I speed WAY up.

But on something like that, I may be content to see the flop at 30 (The previous raise when you had AA) so you dont make a bunch of people cold call two raises. But with those multiway pots, 5 people calling 30 is much better IMHO than one calling 150. Because after the flop if he doesnt hit, he's out, while you are giving 5 people a reason to think they have top pair, and bet into you if you let them see it for 30.

That said, I get caught slowplaying occasionally, but I think the ROI is much better to slowplay em early.

Nick

[mntbikr15]

Been lurking in these forums for some time now and have never posted. Registered a few days ago so I guess ill give it a go. Wouldnt letting 5 people in pre flop be too much of a risk? Someone catching at least 2 pair or better.

Evan

[Toro]

I consider these two hands the most dangerous bust out hands early in a tourney. I never slow play them then. Then again, I tend not to slow play them at all.

[mrbaseball]

These guys are tough early on when a 3 or 4x raise doesn't scare anyone away yet.

But that's what I usually do, I raise usually 3x the bb and then fire a potsize + bet on the flop. If I get called I proceed with caution.

I don't expect to make much with these early on unless I can get all in against some clueless moron with AJ or a pair of 3's preflop. In fact I have considered just pushing preflop with these early on because it's amazing what some people will call all in with hoping for an early double up.

[eMarkM]

Early in a Party tournament, play them fast. There's so many chowderheads playing that you'll usually get action, sometimes way more than you want. Unfortunately, you didn't get callers this time. I like the play with the Kings and I'm usually happy to take down all the dead money. I had JJ in the same tourney in the BB when everyone limped to me. I pushed my stack as in this case I didn't want any action. A guy with 99 called me. Then the board made a straight and we split it /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Once the blinds get a little bigger I'll limp more often in EP hoping to get action. More likely to do it if the table is playing tight and EP raises are constantly taking down the blinds and there's aggerssive players behind me. I'm more likely to limp with AA (and very occasionally Kings, but usually play them fast) in a Pot Limit tourney and hope for a raise behind me so that I'm able to go all-in on re-raise.

Once there are many short stacks with less then 10X BB play them fast again as there's little limping at this point and limps are suspect and many raises will get action anyway, thinking you're stealing. There's so many desparate short stacks at this point, you'll usually get action from a short stack trying to double up.

Thanks for sweating me in that tourney last night. Another close call for me. 25th with top 8 going to the Show and I got rivered again to go out. KQ vs TT, K on the flop, T on the river. At least in this case he was ahead preflop, but still a heartbreak. Like the 5th time I've come close. Oh well, someday...

[BettnTibetn]

early in online tourneys just raise 3X the big blind with both of these hands...almost everytime you will get at least 1 caller. Slowplaying AA and KK early is way too risky beacuse if a person bets big on the flop you never know if they are just betting their top pair or actually have 2 pair. In first position though simply calling with AA or KK can work very well if someone decides to raise the pot. People dont seem to belive you have a great hand when you simply call and then reraise.

[mrbaseball]

[ QUOTE ]
I pushed my stack as in this case I didn't want any action

[/ QUOTE ]

This brings up something that has been on my mind lately. Because with something like JJ (or 99 for that case!) I will often do the same wanting to take it down right then and there. But I think this is too predictable. In fact this is why I think pushing early with AA or KK may be the play. Because it will look like you don't want callers. When someone pushes at a nothing pot I immediately put them on nothing better than a low pair or missed overcards. I just think if you push with AA or KK early you will get more calls from stuff like AJ or AT or 88 than you can imagine in a lot of these lower limit tourneys. I haven't played much in the 200+ entry fee stuff so there I'm guessing the play is better.

[CrackerZack]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't played much in the 200+ entry fee stuff so there I'm guessing the play is better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not much, especially early.

How'd you end up finishing david? You had a healthy stack when i checked in before bed. my table broke and even though i was stuck a bit due getting 35o in the blinds and a hyperaggressive 2+2er raising my blinds every single time I went to bed. This post doesn't have the "I WON A SEAT" feel unfortunately. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[fnurt]

I believe it is very wrong to limp with these hands early in a tourney. The problem is that everyone views it as a major catastrophe if you only win the blinds. Obviously you would like to win more than 25 chips, no one questions that. But action isn't always in the cards.

There are two factors to consider here. The first is that your raises are much more likely to get loose calls early in a tourney, both because the weak players are still in, and because a call represents a smaller portion of each player's stack. So raise it up 4xBB and at least try to build a pot worth winning. Remember, the odds are your opponent will miss the flop, so preflop is the best time to get his money in there.

The second factor is that when the money is deep, everyone has implied odds to try for a big hand against you, and you need to charge them. Do you seriously think that if you limp and let the BB in with his 85o, you will get his whole stack if he flops a pair? I guarantee you that he will get a lot more of your stack when he flops 2 pair than you will if he flops 1 pair. It is true that there are some people who will massively overplay top pair and you will get a lot more from those people if you let them see the flop; however, if you are willing to sweat all that action, you're also going to be the person who pays off when someone gets lucky and beats you.

[davidross]

Hey Cracker,

I think I played pretty well, but it wasn't to be. I was in good shape when you dropped by, then nothing happened for me for 2 rounds. AK and KQ forced to fold on the flop, lost a few chips, then I doubled up with AQ against KQ and picked up some blinds and was looking healthy. Guy on my left went on tilt a little after losing a big pot and after I raised with AKs he put me all in with AQo. I called and looked great...until the river. Q spiked and I was crippled.

Except for my last hand when i was desperate I pushed in 3 times (oh plus my KK BB hand) and each time my opponent had 3 outs or fewer so I think I read the situations well. That one didn't feel as bad as some of my other losses.

[davidross]

I thought you played really well, and got a nice run of cards when you needed them. Too bad you seemed to go completely dead at the end there.

I stayed up to watch the end. That guy BLue Lipton won his 3rd seat, and the guy who hit his 3 outer on me got in too.