All I have to say about the WPT in Arubu show, 2004 version is...

[Easy E]

It must be nice, or at least make life a LOT easier, to keep getting big hands and having a majority of them stand up or catch up.....

Right, EDog "Big Slick" Eric L?

[astroglide]

he caught ridiculous cards

[Daliman]

I havent seen it, but i was there, and it seems to me the first hand once they went Heads up Was Erik going allin with Q2h, Other guy calling AK, flop q, turn 2...

So yeah, you could say he caught

Also, the hand that knocked out the irishman in 3rd, like he's not gonna get called? Wasn't sure if the blinds/stacks situation at the time but jeez, isn't there a better spot for your $$$ than J6h, i mean, it's barely even average...

[TheArtist]

The Irish didn't get any hands at all the whole tournament and still manage to win chips. I think J6h was another move he was trying to make but unfortunately ran into AK.

TheArtist

[chaos]

If you keep putting all your chips in with trash (35, 57, etc) sooner or later you are going to get called and eliminated.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]


The Irish didn't get any hands at all the whole tournament and still manage to win chips. I think J6h was another move he was trying to make but unfortunately ran into AK.

TheArtist

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, not any hands that you SAW. For all we know, he had AA 6 times and only got the blinds each time. The final table went on for about 6 or so hours, so of course its not like you see every hand. I'm not sure how I feel about the irishman's play though; was he just lucky that when he pressed his opponent didn't have much, or did he have great reads in those instances. Given his KJo early play vs EL's aces and his horrendous play of KT vs EL's JT late, i'd say the former. Actually a very astute comment by VVP that he plays crap hands much better than good ones.
That said, MAN was EL a card rack....

[boedeker]

i play live prolly about 15 hours a week and havent seen AA in 3 weeks...

[TimTimSalabim]

I thought he played well early on by making some tough laydowns that enabled him to preserve a decent size stack and not just fritter it away on a bunch of bad chases like I've seen other WPT players do. Then when he did start catching cards later on, he made the most of it. And yes, caught some luck along the way. But isn't that how you usually win a tournament?

[unfrgvn]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought he played well early on by making some tough laydowns that enabled him to preserve a decent size stack and not just fritter it away on a bunch of bad chases like I've seen other WPT players do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like Barry Schulman. What was he thinking on that Q 5 hand?
Surely he had to think he was at least outkicked at some point.

[Easy E]

I agree- however
Then when he did start catching cards later on, he made the most of it. And yes, caught some luck along the way"

Sure makes it a lot easier when you get THAT many cards.

[Easy E]

[ QUOTE ]

Like Barry Schulman. What was he thinking on that Q 5 hand?
Surely he had to think he was at least outkicked at some point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought Barry called him WAY too quickly on the end. I didn't see much of Dan? play, but Barry seemed to have made up his mind on the flop that the guy was playing him.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

It was a truly Varkonyi-esque performance.

[Easy E]

It's a good one.

We'll see how the ole Edog does in the future before calling him Varkonyi Jr., okay?

[Aloysius]

I also thought Shulman's call with Q5o was pretty insane. I know that the table was only 6-handed at the time, and that his Q will be good some portion of the time, but still.

Is this an example of a player overplaying his "read" on someone? I feel like this happens alot. Aren't there times, especially in a tourney, when common sense prevails, you just lay the hand down, and wait for a better spot? It's not like Shulman's opponent in the hand (soon-to-be-married guy) was a tricky player.

[Sundevils21]

Speaking of about to be married, what about his new wife?

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
I also thought Shulman's call with Q5o was pretty insane. I know that the table was only 6-handed at the time, and that his Q will be good some portion of the time, but still.

Is this an example of a player overplaying his "read" on someone? I feel like this happens alot. Aren't there times, especially in a tourney, when common sense prevails, you just lay the hand down, and wait for a better spot? It's not like Shulman's opponent in the hand (soon-to-be-married guy) was a tricky player.

[/ QUOTE ]
Barry was trying to bully weaker players, obviously, as he did previously when Rick pulled the post-oak bluff earlier in the show on the turn, then checked the river, handing it to barry. Rick didn't have much live tourney experience, but fairly extensive online tourney experience, from what I know, and it showed in a few instances, e.g. his 99 allin vs a 150k raise from the BB when he had T750K or so. 400-500K would have been a better play i think, then fold to the allin, but it pretty marginal either way there. Daniel Larsson played masterfully the whole time, and I don't think he would have pulled the same move vs. Rick from the BB as he did A8o vs 66 against Erick with the over the top move, as Erick had said earlier he was gunning for him. If he raises the 500k DL may only call also, and the QJ7 flop is easy enough to get away from for 99. As far as KK vs AA, nothing he could do there.
From what I heard, Barry and Erick were doing most of the
blind taking, as chip stacks were showing coming back from commercials, so that probably has something to do with it. too. Anyways, the hand in question, i think barry did ok on the turn, but TOTALLY misplayed the turn and river. If he was payiing attention, after he called the turn bet from Rick, Rick VERY demonstratively placed about an 80K stack of chips on top of his cards as a protector, JUST a bit of a tell there, that Mr. Shulman totally booted. Other than the fact that the way rick was playing, he WAS betting when he had a hand also, a colossal misstep from someone who should have known better

[JTG51]

...e.g. his 99 allin vs a 150k raise from the BB when he had T750K or so. 400-500K would have been a better play i think, then fold to the allin, but it pretty marginal either way there.

I've played very little no limit, but raising to 500K then folding sounds like a terrible play to me. He'd be getting better than 5-1 on his last 250K and in the worst case scenario he's about a 4-1 underdog.

I don't know if going all in was a good play, but it seems a lot better than raising to 500K then folding to an all in.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
...e.g. his 99 allin vs a 150k raise from the BB when he had T750K or so. 400-500K would have been a better play i think, then fold to the allin, but it pretty marginal either way there.

I've played very little no limit, but raising to 500K then folding sounds like a terrible play to me. He'd be getting better than 5-1 on his last 250K and in the worst case scenario he's about a 4-1 underdog.

I don't know if going all in was a good play, but it seems a lot better than raising to 500K then folding to an all in.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, if he raised to 500K, there would be about 1.05 million in there. So yeah, he'd be getting about 4-1, but this is more of a stack preservation play than anything else. As I said, marginal difference, but the differnce that separate the good from the greats.

[legend42]

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Well, if he raised to 500K, there would be about 1.05 million in there. So yeah, he'd be getting about 4-1, but this is more of a stack preservation play than anything else. As I said, marginal difference, but the differnce that separate the good from the greats.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never seen any of the greats ever bet 500K of a 750K stack, then fold to a raise.

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, if he raised to 500K, there would be about 1.05 million in there. So yeah, he'd be getting about 4-1, but this is more of a stack preservation play than anything else. As I said, marginal difference, but the differnce that separate the good from the greats.

[/ QUOTE ]

A player would have be insane to fold 99 under these circumstances.

[pretender2k]

The little bit I saw gave me a feeling that online poker is really affecting the way poker is played. How many times did you think to yourself these guys have done that exercise where you cover up your cards and play the player? Those guys would throw a small raise out on anything. Yeah they may have got burned in the end by a good run of cards but did they care when they saw the chack? Who thought they'd get that far?

[Daliman]

call me insane then, cuz i've done similar, been right, and gone on to win the tourney afterwards.

[JTG51]

Well, if he raised to 500K, there would be about 1.05 million in there.

If he's got 750K and the other guy has him covered, there would be 1.25M plus the SB and antes in the pot when he has to call his last 250K.

[daryn]

that was the 2003 upc, not 2004, right?

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
Speaking of about to be married, what about his new wife?

[/ QUOTE ]

His new wife if Tonya from Big Brother 3 (US version). She acted like a slut then (One contestant called her "a hooker masquerading as a mother") and was one of the first people evicted. Huge tits though.

[legend42]

[ QUOTE ]
call me insane then, cuz i've done similar, been right, and gone on to win the tourney afterwards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then first, your opponent was stupid for showing you his hand. And second, you were still stupid for folding.

Normally, when you raise 500K out of a 750K stack, you're announcing that you have a hand you don't want to go all-in with. Sure, you could say you'd play aces the same way, but if your opponent doesn't know that, he just may figure you'll fold to an all-in- which you've admitted here you would- and take a shot at you with AK. That chance alone makes your move extremely ill-advised.

And whether you've done it or not, I've never seen a top player bet 2/3 of his stack, and then fold for the other 1/3- with ANY hand, much less 99. Find *one* pro to say they would. By rule, you're getting more than 5-1 on the last call. There is no hand that is a 5-1 favorite over 99. Quite simply, it would be absolutely moronic to do what you suggested is the difference between good players and great players.

[Daliman]

ok, but also, remember that both calling and folding are also an option here.