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View Full Version : Bad laydown on river with pocket Js?

RED_RAIN
05-12-2004, 08:47 PM
On the river perhaps if I bet he would have folded but I just thought no matter what he had my beat.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: (6 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 6 BB, won by UTG.</font>
<font color="#990066">Pot 2: 1 BB, overbet by UTG.</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG doesn't show.
Outcome: UTG wins 7 BB. </font>
dfscott
05-12-2004, 08:57 PM
I think you're right, but I'd have to make a crying call here. You only need about a 15% chance to win to make it worth calling.
RED_RAIN
05-12-2004, 09:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think you're right, but I'd have to make a crying call here. You only need about a 15% chance to win to make it worth calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

True. But do you even think 15% of the time I'll be right? Could be dead on flop, then river total slaughters a lot.
Glurfle
05-13-2004, 04:15 AM
If you're going to call, why not just bet and give them a chance to fold?
RED_RAIN
05-13-2004, 04:42 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If you're going to call, why not just bet and give them a chance to fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because if they raise what will you do? Fold? I don't think this is a good option here.
HajiShirazu
05-13-2004, 04:56 AM
I would have bet and folded to a raise here.
blackaces13
05-13-2004, 05:24 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Because if they raise what will you do? Fold? I don't think this is a good option here.



[/ QUOTE ]

Wait a minute. You think that check folding is better than betting and folding to a raise? Being that there is a chance you hold the best hand and that a bet after a check may well be a bluff but a raise after a bet almost never will be I have to disagree.
Raiser
05-13-2004, 02:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Because if they raise what will you do? Fold? I don't think this is a good option here.


[/ QUOTE ]

Wait a minute. You think that check folding is better than betting and folding to a raise? Being that there is a chance you hold the best hand and that a bet after a check may well be a bluff but a raise after a bet almost never will be I have to disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my thinking. I would probably check/call because it's heads up at the river.

However, as blackaces points out, I think the bet/fold line is much better than check/fold.
chief444
05-13-2004, 02:39 PM
I can think of several hands that include a 9 but no diamond that UTG may have played as he did. I would check/call the river. I don't like check/folding but I also disagree with those saying he should bet and fold to a raise. I agree that he could safely fold to a raise but I'm not sure what the bet would accomplish. There aren't too many hands that would just call that you beat and there probably aren't any better hands that would fold. So if it isn't a good value bet and your unlikely to eliminate a better hand then why?
Glurfle
05-13-2004, 02:43 PM
That's exactly what I'm going to do, unless the player is a known LAG or bluffer, in which case I'm going to check-call. Absent that read, I bet and fold to a raise.
chief444
05-13-2004, 02:49 PM
What is he going to fold that you wouldn't want him to call with if you do bet out? What would he call with that you beat? What are you gaining by betting out?