So confused by the play that I cannot come up a subject (PP 15/30)

[Enon]

I'm playing 15/30 last night when I should have gone to bed early in order to get up and work on a philosophy presentation on Edmond Burke, a 19th century political theorist.

I'm in the small blind with AQo and opponent two off the button limps, button limps and I raise, button folds and the villain 2 off the button reraises!, button folds and I flat call and we are heads up.

Now, what am I to make of this. My first thought is that this guy doesn't just want to pick up the blinds with his aces but I just can't imagine what else he could have. I've noticed that he is way too loose and fairly aggresive but I've only played at the table with him for 30 minutes.

So the flop comes 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif I check he bets.

Turn: [6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif] Q/images/graemlins/club.gif

I check again, raise and then get reraised! Would you lay this down here? I'm getting 5.5-1 odds to call the reraise and check call the river.

How'd I do? Should I merely have check called all the way down believing that I'm likely behind to a bizzare limp reraise from aces?

[haakee]

I think your line of play thus far is good. Call the turn re-raise and call a river bet. He may have aces, he may have AK or AQ, or he may have some other crazy hand that you didn't expect. I've seen a lot of, ahem, unorthodox limp-reraises playing in mid-limit games in California. I'd imagine you see plenty of them in the Party 15-30 as well.

[pokerraja]

after he reraises you on turn, i would call and check-call the turn. THe only hands you are behind are AA and QQ. His limp reraise preflop is confusing play. Im thinking only AA, KK, or QQ would do that move. AK just does not seem like a good play to limp reraise. but you never know. But i have to see his cards for him to beat me at that point.

[Nightwish]

You're heads up against a LAG. Just call his 3-bet and the river.

I think I was at the same table as you when this hand transpired. I'm not 100% sure, but I should be able to look it up in my PT database tonight.

[cero_z]

Hi Enon,
You should definitely not lay this down. You are going to showdown no matter what. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that the guy has JTs, and picked up a flush draw to go with his double belly-buster. His play could be a trap with a big pair, but there are only 2 Aces left in the deck (and 2 Qs), so it's very very unlikely that he has a big set. He could easily have an AK that he just decided to limp with initially. You almost certainly have the winner right now. I've seen enough yahoos on Party (I play quite a bit of 15-30 there) that I would gladly cap it on the flop and turn, and then bet out and call the raise on the river if a blank fell, or check-call if a flush or straight card fell (if I was feeling really cautious). So, in case you haven't guessed, I think your attitude is much too timid in this hand. People on Party play very, very, badly, and most of their mistakes are raising when they should call or fold.
Incidentally, if I knew this guy to be a decent player, I would check-raise the flop, and go into check-call mode if he 3-bet. More likely, he would just call the raise, whether his hand was great or mediocre. Then, I'd lead on the turn, knowing that I might be raised. If I was, I'd call and check-call the river. If not, I'd lead on the river and call a raise. What I'm saying is that I'd want exactly two bets to go in on the turn (so check-raising isn't good), and one or two on the river.

[Gabe]

Reading without reflecting is like eating without digesting, but it is the nature of all greatness not to be exact. No passion so effectually robs the mind of all its powers of acting and reasoning as fear.

[steveyz]

I'd say less than 5% of the limp-reraises I see on Party 15/30 represent AA, especially from an LMP or later open limper. I see it sometimes with AK, but most of the time it's pure crap.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
My first thought is that this guy doesn't just want to pick up the blinds with his aces but I just can't imagine what else he could have.
.
Turn: [6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif] Q/images/graemlins/club.gif
.
I check again, raise and then get reraised!

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you put this guy on AA and then you check-raised him on the turn? Where is the logic in your play?

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that the guy has JTs, and picked up a flush draw to go with his double belly-buster.

[/ QUOTE ]

Get off that limb quickly. It can't possibly support the weight of your imagination. What's he got- a red flush draw or a black flush draw? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[glen]

I think you played it fine, just call the turn and river and maybe you will see something that beats you, or maybe you will see something that doesn't, and that something that doesn't may even be very funny. . . .

[Enon]

As I'm sure you would agree with, putting someone on a hand surely doesn't mean you should stick with your first guess. I indicated by my post that this was my first thought on the matter.

The reason I posted this was because I really was conflicted about the play since I had never encountered a limp reraise from late position before, hence could only draw on my intuition in that split second.

Someone tricky enough to limp reraise with aces in that position could just as easily have done this with a multitude of other hands.

[Enon]

I ended up calling the turn and then checking river after a rag hit.

I was shown QQ for the turned one outer.

[DcifrThs]

it is possible he has QQ as well enon. his play would be consistent with it as these loose agros tend to think any pair jj-aa is worth too much to raise and pick up the blinds with.

but either way you're likely behind but you have to call down imo. he could think AK is too good as well. you need to know what he's doing that with. but that knowledge is an ancillary benefit from having a fairly strong hand in a heads up pot on the turn. wierd play or not i call turn and river.

i would NOT however, be surprised to be shown a low pair flopped set. i've seen that play with a low pair as well. and low pairs are known to flop sets in the hands of loose agros /images/graemlins/wink.gif

call down. learn. next hand.
-Barron

[DcifrThs]

that is the singular most elequent expression of that i've ever heard.

please tell me you wrote that and its not a quotation.

its almost like Goerthe expounding upon his love of the beauty that surrounds him in his garden.

-Barron

[DcifrThs]

WOW.

rare is the post that i hit like that.

glad his play is so transparent that he thinks EXACTLY like that.

see ya later enon.
-Barron

[Nightwish]

I just looked up this hand in PT. Your opponent was indeed a LAG. So was the chatty guy immediately to your left, but I'm guessing you already knew that.

[Michael Davis]

"Someone tricky enough to limp reraise with aces in that position could just as easily have done this with a multitude of other hands."

Then why would you have considered laying it down?

You are either way ahead or way behind in this hand, given your suspicion of AA (and, what he had, QQ). I would have bet the turn, but definitely would not have checkraised.

-Michael

[HajiShirazu]

It seems that elysium has had a major influence on this forum.

[cero_z]

Thanks. My bad for not noticing the suits. But, as anyone who's actually played much PP 15/30 would know, JTs (or some other good multi-way hand that now has a straight draw) was a good possibility, given the late position limp-reraise. It's common for people to gamble it up with these types of hands, once there are a couple of people in the pot.

[Senor Choppy]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone tricky enough to limp reraise with aces in that position could just as easily have done this with a multitude of other hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's been my experience that the people limping who are afraid of stealing the blinds and are hoping to limp-reraise, do so with QQ occasionally, KK and AA somewhat equally, AK a suprising number of times, and very occasionally, AQ in the CO or on the button. Anything else is usually someone that wanted to see a cheap flop and is pissed off he got raised, so it could be any two.

Despite the results, I would've called his turn raise and check-called the river, there are many situations where you're ahead here, especially since 2 aces and 2 queens are already out.

[elysium]

hi enon
check-call it down, or check-fold the flop. now enon, there is a third possibility for you here consisting of folding pre-flop. this is the problem with AQ and AJ. sometimes, after sustaining a raise, and then hitting your hand, if the pre-flop raise is made by a non-tricky or non-aggressive type opponent, your better off folding when the A top pair flops. it's a tough fold, not the toughest, but probably the toughest least certain fold of tough folds. and the fold most open to ridicule. do anything with this from the flop and beyond, and even if a K lands, you must usually call anyway since you AK was ahead anyway, and if that's what you thought your opponent had, well then, you should have folded. you also have reason now to believe he doesn't have KK. but enon, the reality of it is that he has the crummy AK, and less often the KK. and you get strung along.

AQo is a gamble, more so than almost any other hand. you're gambling that you will be able to fold the dang thing if things go awry. i'm not so good in this department myself with the stupid AQ, and need to see the turn too often. no enon. hey that's almost a forward and backwards sentence, no enon. the e messes it up. no neo n will help either. hey! no neo n! that's it!

tough folds enon. the earlier the better.