Worth Slowplaying Set on flop in middle position on flop [Archive]

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RED_RAIN

05-12-2004, 12:38 PM

Should I bet out or check hope for a bet on flop, then check/raise on turn.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (7 players) 
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (7 players) 
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players) 
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB
Main Pot: 8.50 BB, between MP3 and Hero. > Pot won by MP3 (8.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows 5d 5h (three of a kind, fives).
MP3 shows 6c Ad (straight, nine high).
Outcome: MP3 wins 8.50 BB.

sublime

05-12-2004, 12:45 PM

I would bet the flop, I dont like checking into limpers.

Dont worry, they will come along for the ride.

You dont want to get fancy when you have a limp-fest pre flop. If there had been a pre flop raise you can get away with it, but as it stands you probably left at least 4 SB's on the table here.

jedi

05-12-2004, 12:51 PM

On this hand, there's a potential flush draw on the board and only 2 people to be heard from. You can't afford to let this flop get checked around, especially since it does NOT meet the requirement for slowplaying.

The flush draw is going with you to the river, you need to get money in now because if the flush misses, he's not going to pay you off with a river bet. I've read the results and I'm not even considering the runner-runner straight that the other guy made. His mistake wasn't too bad because it got checked around on the flop.

Bet the flop, even 3-bet or cap it if it gets back around to you. The only place I slow down is on the river when the possible flush hits, but you've got to get your money in when you have the best of it, especially at these limits.

[ QUOTE ]
Should I bet out or check hope for a bet on flop, then check/raise on turn.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (7 players) 
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (7 players) 
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players) 
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB
Main Pot: 8.50 BB, between MP3 and Hero. > Pot won by MP3 (8.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows 5d 5h (three of a kind, fives).
MP3 shows 6c Ad (straight, nine high).
Outcome: MP3 wins 8.50 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

RED_RAIN

05-12-2004, 01:13 PM

Should I check here and still wait till turn? There are so many callers thought for sure I would get one bet.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (7 players) 
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (7 players) 
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button calls.

River: (8.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players) 
Hero bets, UTG raises, MP1 folds, CO folds, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB
Main Pot: 16.50 BB, between UTG and Hero. > Pot won by Hero (16.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
UTG shows Js 8s (three of a kind, jacks).
Hero shows 6s 6c (full house, sixes full of jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 16.50 BB.

sublime

05-12-2004, 01:17 PM

Same answers as above, no pre flop raise and you need to bet out.

nolanfan34

05-12-2004, 01:17 PM

No, bet out on the flop. You're going to get called by any K, any flush draw, any other pair, etc. No worries that someone has KK, since it wasn't raised PF.

If it gets raised behind you, then I think a smooth call then CR on 4th isn't a bad play. But generally I'd smooth call and bet out again on 4th.

Same thought applies to the first hand, bet that flop and get that A6 out of there.

RED_RAIN

05-12-2004, 01:51 PM

So you or anyone don't think it's good to check and since so many other players (second hand) wait and hope for bet for a c/r on turn?

Joe Tall

05-12-2004, 02:11 PM

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

jedi

05-12-2004, 03:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So you or anyone don't think it's good to check and since so many other players (second hand) wait and hope for bet for a c/r on turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

NO! Why wait? You have a set on a board that has flush draw and straight draw possibilities on it. Bet out and hope to get raised.

cnfuzzd

05-12-2004, 06:16 PM

The only time i slowplay a set is if there is an aggresive player at the table, the flop looks like *that* aggresive player may have a piece of it, there are at least two players between me and the potential better, and there are absolutly no draws immediatly evident on the board that a free card would help beat me. Doesnt happen that often.

peace

john nickle

Thebram

05-12-2004, 06:36 PM

Your hand is so disguised why would you feel the need to slow play it? Are you afraid people are going to put you on a set and not call overcards or low pairs?
If you're not going to bet your set when you make it, then why even play 55?

You have a good hand, bet it.
Not to mention, as others have already pointed out, the last thing you want to do is give flush draws a free card.

RED_RAIN

05-12-2004, 06:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Your hand is so disguised why would you feel the need to slow play it? Are you afraid people are going to put you on a set and not call overcards or low pairs?
If you're not going to bet your set when you make it, then why even play 55?

You have a good hand, bet it.
Not to mention, as others have already pointed out, the last thing you want to do is give flush draws a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true about not giving free cards. I just also thought someone would bet also cause at this level often the CO or Button will bet at any flop and I would be able to get in my c/r here or on turn. Point taken and from others. Thanks

jedi

05-12-2004, 07:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Very true about not giving free cards. I just also thought someone would bet also cause at this level often the CO or Button will bet at any flop and I would be able to get in my c/r here or on turn. Point taken and from others. Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you want to check-raise here? If cutoff or button bets, you've got no chance to check-raise to trap people in for extra bets. You'd be check-raising to thin out the field but you want the extra callers. Just something to think about.

Lead out and some people might "take one off" to see the turn. If someone raises, pop it back. Getting it checked around is a disaster because it 1) robs you of money when you likely have the most equity in the pot and 2) Gives free cards to everyone, especially the flush draw.

You're not necessarily "charging the flush draw" to come along because he's coming along no matter what. You AND the flush draw are charging the other players with one pair or two pair to try to draw out on you.

By the way, read HEFAP. In it, Sklanksy describes the conditions for slow playing. Neither of these hands met those conditions.