Laydown Quads?

[NotMitch]

Final Board is 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 10 /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif , you have 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and there are 2 all ins ahead of you, lay down the quads? I dont think so, but I want to be sure.

[Jsb]

my instinct is to not lay down the quads. man, if you lose with four of a kind, god forbid, then so be it. i would not be able to sleep at night if i had laid down four of a kind, but maybe thats just me.

[thomastem]

[ QUOTE ]
Final Board is 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 10 /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif , you have 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and there are 2 all ins ahead of you, lay down the quads? I dont think so, but I want to be sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

You won't lay down K-K on a terrible flop (From the K-K perspective) with 2 all-ins but you are wondering about laying quads? Now that is funny.

Here is the only scenario I can think of justifying a lay down:

3 left in the tourney. 1st pays 50K, 2nd pays 30K, and 3rd pays 5K. You have 50K in chips and the 2 all-in each have 850K in chips. Folding means you just about guaruntee 25K more in for taking 2nd rather than 3rd.

You will see a ton more royals than be faced with this situation.

[La Brujita]

I would definitely lay it down in some circumstances depending on the quality of the opponents and the preflop action. Unlike 7Cs your holding is relative to the board.

Just want to relay a quick story from a final table multi last week. I held 9-2 in the bb and three people saw an unraised pot. Flop came KK9 and I led out at it with two callers (the two biggest stacks). Turn brought another K and I checked and there was a bet and a raise. I folded. River was bet and raised and the two got all in. Shockingly one big stack went out with ducks in his pocket as the other held the case K. Someone asked him what he was thinking and he said he had a full house which was such a strong holding he couldn't lay it down.

Just thought I would share a funny story that is somewhat relevant.

[Stagemusic]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is the only scenario I can think of justifying a lay down:

3 left in the tourney. 1st pays 50K, 2nd pays 30K, and 3rd pays 5K. You have 50K in chips and the 2 all-in each have 850K in chips. Folding means you just about guaruntee 25K more in for taking 2nd rather than 3rd.


[/ QUOTE ]

TT is exactly right on here...Perfect example of the ONLY time I am laying down quads. IF someone has gone to the river with a draw and they get there...good for them. I am betting on the quads against someone holding the one outer. If I lose...I just blame the fact that online poker as we all know, is rigged. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]
Final Board is 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 10 /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif , you have 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and there are 2 all ins ahead of you, lay down the quads? I dont think so, but I want to be sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not guaranteeing this is correct, but even if there IS a open ended straight flush draw on the board, there's only 2 cards that can get you. 6 others make a non-flush straight, 7 others make a flush, and J9 T9 98 88 TT JJ all make boats.

There's 87 out of 990 possible hole hands using the remaining 45 cards that make the straight flush.

This board was a 2pair/FH for any Tx/TT on the flop, and a flush draw for any /images/graemlins/club.gif, there's some all-in material right there. The turn brought a nut straight to someone who may or may not also have a flush draw. I see many ways an all-in could happen in this hand.

Plus, a straight flush wasn't even a consideration until the turn AND river were both on the board. When did the players go all-in? Does your stack cover the all-in, or will you be all-in by calling? Was there big PF raising? Are the all-in'ers reasonable enough to not hang onto a 7/images/graemlins/club.gif with heavy PF action? If they are, then your chances of winning just doubled.

The situation would have to be absolutely perfect before I even get a little bit scared. Even then, Im never gonna be scared enough to fold quads.. No way, can't do it... Call and pray 7/images/graemlins/club.gif and Q/images/graemlins/club.gif aren't out there.

I bet one is all-in with A/images/graemlins/club.gif praying the boat isn't out there, and the other is all-in with a boat. Sets and straights would be too scary to play here, but it's hard to let go of a nut flush and more/less impossible to fold a good boat.

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]
3 left in the tourney. 1st pays 50K, 2nd pays 30K, and 3rd pays 5K. You have 50K in chips and the 2 all-in each have 850K in chips. Folding means you just about guaruntee 25K more in for taking 2nd rather than 3rd.


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If you KNOW you're beat in this tourny anyway, then ya, I could see a slim slim situation where folding would possibly be correct.. If the chip leaders dont have EXACTLY the same amount of chips, then a knockout isn't guaranteed, and the difference would have to be significantly less than my 50K stack. Otherwise you're passing up an excellent chance to TRIPLE up and get back in the game..

[NotMitch]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Final Board is 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 10 /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif , you have 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and there are 2 all ins ahead of you, lay down the quads? I dont think so, but I want to be sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

You won't lay down K-K on a terrible flop (From the K-K perspective) with 2 all-ins but you are wondering about laying quads? Now that is funny.

Here is the only scenario I can think of justifying a lay down:

3 left in the tourney. 1st pays 50K, 2nd pays 30K, and 3rd pays 5K. You have 50K in chips and the 2 all-in each have 850K in chips. Folding means you just about guaruntee 25K more in for taking 2nd rather than 3rd.

You will see a ton more royals than be faced with this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

TT,

I think these situations are different. The KK hand was on the flop and on a draw filled board. I still think people will push with a ton of hands you are in good shape against there. And if the player called than hand they were still in decent shape. Obviously we disagree on that hand.

However in this hand all the cards are out and I dont think anyone can be bluffing in this spot. One of them probably has A /images/graemlins/club.gif and rivered the flush. But how can I put either of them on a full house? The flop was checked around, and there was a smalhish bet on the turn. I just cant see how one of them has the boat here. In a way I would rather have TT here, because then you could give someone credit for a boat with J9 or 89. But since I have all the 9's its harder for someone to have a boat. So if someone has the flush, does the other guys have the straight? A badly played AA? Im just having trouble thinking of 2 hands I beat here given the action. And in the KK hand I can think of a ton of hands that KK is ahead of.

I still dont think I can bring myself to lay it down, but it got me thinking.

[k000k]

We never knew the flop was checked around, or any of the order of events for that matter.. Thus all my q's in my previous post

[thomastem]

10-10 could have slow-played the flop and J-J could be a holding as well. 1st all-in may have saw the lack of action and made a play at the pot.

[Mackas]

What are the blinds/stack sizes? How many people left in the tourney? Action before flop? Do you know anything about how the players in question play?

Going to be hard to laydown but there are situations where you could at least consider it. More importantly there would be situations where you wouldn't even consider laying it down for example shorthanded, blinds big relative to stack size, pot so big neither player already all in would have wanted to give it up if they had any half decent piece of the board etc.

Was this a real hand anyway or just a hypothetical question?