anyone play 97s like this? 40-80

[mike l.]

this hand is further proof of where my confused schizo state is getting me into weird situations. i have 9h7h in the cutoff, there are 2 loose limpers and one checking poster to me, i overcrawl along with the herd. button who likes to raise on the button raises on the button. bb calls, limpers call. the floor comes over and announces that someone from pacoima just phoned in a call. we all see a flop.

9d7d4c. checked to me and i get all greedy and lame and check. i decide that having the button bet and then being able to checkraise all these fools would be the funniest thing and build a really huge pot for whoever cares to suck out on my totally vulnerable hand. button helps me out by checking as well. thanks pal, ill remember that.

the turn is Tc. someone in the middle bets, i raise, all fold (it turns out the guy from pacoima was just trying to order a pizza), utg calls two cold. mp calls. 3 of us now.

the river is Kd. checked to me. what's my play? if i bet, what if im raised? how do i get myself into these predicaments? and what did the guy from pacoima want on his pizza?

[Yeknom58]

If you know the button likes to raise on the button why did you even bother with such a hand?

[Nightwish]

Calling two cold on the turn usually means a flush draw or the nut straight draw (both of which came), though it could also be a (missed) club flush draw or an 8 (or even AT if UTG is very loose passive). Checking behind seems like the right play to me.

[astroglide]

i liked your post a lot minus the end: how do i get myself into these predicaments? and what did the guy from pacoima want on his pizza?.

as for the play, somebody could have a ten, and 8, a diamond draw, a club draw, or the venerable "god knows what." i would bet. whether or not i folded to raise would "depend."

[Gabe]

anchovies.

[elysium]

hi mike
never go for a check-raise from the CO in a multi-way. you must bet it yourself or raise the button when he bets out of turn, after you check. however, even though you are checking and then raising, in the latter instance, it is nevertheless not a check-raise.

i'm glad it's you posting because i know that you know that a player betting out of turn doesn't necessarily mean a player crossing his bet over the line out of turn. you know with a degree of certainty tantamount to his crossing the line with his bet, whether or not he will actually do so. and how you know this and at what level may have been refined by now down to how the button is breathing or sitting, while for other less experienced players, it may take some telegraph or other before the proverbial action out of turn has taken place; and then, the dealer might have some other varying opinion of the definition of the term 'acting out of turn'. whatever that means to you, this is what is first necessary before leaving all those bets up to chance. you have way too much to lose from the CO to leave this call up to a hunch, although someone else if allowed into the privy of your thinking process as you checked, may define your estimation of what your opponent may do as nothing more than just that, a hunch. but with your experience, you know what that opponent will do with the confident surety as if he did just that and bet out of turn.

when he checks it down, that is a huge error on your part. that button mike has to bet out of turn in order to make check-raising this multi-way from your position with your holding correct. you made a huge rookie error.

[mike l.]

"when he checks it down, that is a huge error on your part. that button mike has to bet out of turn in order to make check-raising this multi-way from your position with your holding correct. you made a huge rookie error."

i understand. thank you.

[UMTerp]

If you know the button likes to raise on the button why did you even bother with such a hand?

Does it really change things that much? I don't mind playing 97s from the CO for two bets with 4 or 5 opponents, especially given the fact that the raise doesn't necessarily mean a strong hand.

Heck, the extra bets in there will help give you odds to draw to a straight or flush as well if the flop fits you, which obviously gives a hand like 97s the vast majority of its value.

The only drawback I can see is if UTG or UTG+1 are observant players (and I assume they are at 40-80), they'd be more apt to limp with big pairs knowing he can count on the button to raise most hands. You wouldn't want to face two bets coming back preflop with a shortened field.

[andyfox]

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Schmed]

preflop, I will make that call from there with that every single time when I can expect limpers and a raise behind me. Someone did point out that an observant player would limp with a big pair knowing he can expect the button to raise. That's a good point but it's just something to consider. If all the limpers calls his bet the point is moot.

Flop.

Not to beat you up over it but you have to bet here. You hope the button raises and you get out things like the jqs or K10s. The pot's big enough to take it now.

I bet the river too. If raised easy call.

[mike l.]

i bet the river of course feeling really really bad about my chances and of course was raised by utg and i called and saw his Q4s for the flush and quietly mucked.

[DcifrThs]

i don't know how, mike l., you put yourself in the position to have a "tsk, tsk, tsk" thrown at you by the forum, but

tsk, tsk, tsk. bet the flop and hope the button raises. pot is getting big there are draws out there that you want to chage to hit. many people there and many draws after limpers and midling cards hit i'd say = a bet with the hope the button has a high pair. but a button who likes to raise on the button doesn't need to have a pair or hand to do it ...

just a quick aside, i loved reading this post, "a button who likes to raise on the button raises on the button" LOL i had to take a breather from laughing in order to compose myself to read the rest of the hilarious pizza-rific post.

back to the hand. turn obviously played itself.

Kd, not a card you really want to see and there are no cards to come and you need to see a showdown and you don't want to call a raise so i say, Mason-it. i.e. check call.

-Barron