80-160 AA bet the river?

[mike l.]

i have AA in the sb. 7 handed. loose utg limper, cutoff loose as well raises, i 3 bet, bb folds, limper calls, cutoff calls.

i bet dark. the flop is JhTd5d. utg raises, cutoff 3 bets, i cap it they both call.

i bet the turn dark. it's a 7h. both call.

the river is 8h. should i bet? if im raised should i call?

[auntieklava]

Even though the 8 might have helped utg, I think you'll get enough loose calls from him (given the size of the pot and your player description) to make a bet profitable. It seems very unlikely the cutoff has you beat, and you should get an extra bet from him quite often if utg fails to raise the river. It hurts, but I think you have to call a raise.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Even though the 8 might have helped utg, I think you'll get enough loose calls from him (given the size of the pot and your player description) to make a bet profitable. It seems very unlikely the cutoff has you beat, and you should get an extra bet from him quite often if utg fails to raise the river. It hurts, but I think you have to call a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

mike,

don't bet. just mumble something like "there's enough in the pot..." and check while holding some chips and staring into the other two opponents threateningly.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Kenny

[andyfox]

This is 80-160, man. Staring doesn't cut it. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Philuva]

[ QUOTE ]
don't bet. just mumble something like "there's enough in the pot..." and check while holding some chips and staring into the other two opponents threateningly.


[/ QUOTE ]

I hate that move. If you are checking the river, then you want them to take a shot at you with a worse hand. If you do that move, usually only better hands bet the river.

Anyway, as to the hand, I would bet and call a raise.

[astroglide]

so he can get flagged as a chump? it's an 80 game.

[andyfox]

I don't see the 8 changing things. I'd bet. If I'm raised, I'm getting (by my fuzzy math) 13:1 to call, so I'd have to be pretty damn sure I'm beat to fold. Although you've practically put up a sign, "I have pocket aces."

Did you have the ace of hearts?

[mikelow]

You should have bet the river dark as well. I guess you have" to call a river raise, because of the pot size.

I would fold to a river raise--it's a straight or a flush 97% of the time.

[Nightwish]

It would help to know whether you have the Ad.

[Mikey]

"You should have bet the river dark as well. I guess you have" to call a river raise, because of the pot size.

I would fold to a river raise--it's a straight or a flush 97% of the time. "

so which one is it??

I would think this hand would play better if he were to check and call.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even though the 8 might have helped utg, I think you'll get enough loose calls from him (given the size of the pot and your player description) to make a bet profitable. It seems very unlikely the cutoff has you beat, and you should get an extra bet from him quite often if utg fails to raise the river. It hurts, but I think you have to call a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

mike,

don't bet. just mumble something like "there's enough in the pot..." and check while holding some chips and staring into the other two opponents threateningly.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Kenny

[/ QUOTE ]

what exactly does this accomplish? if he has a worse hand he planned on betting, your comments/stare might cause him to now check. if you check you're saying you're basically prepared to calla bet anyway and the more observant opponents can eliminate a hand or two when you try something likethis again.

also, to the initial poster, i never bet dark. why? because observant opponents can pick up on things even YOU are unaware of. i use the same motion every time and bet in the same manner every time. nobody learns anything from the physical nature of my bet as they now can from your dark bets.


i say because the opponents are LOOSE, you must bet as giving up $320 is not something i'd be happy about. although it would hurt to call a raise i think the benefits of betting outweight the times a 9 is in an opponents hand. of course a two pair is now possible but after all that raising on the flop its a little less likely than normal...had there not been all that raising, indicating possibly j8 t9, t8, t7 etc. then a river bet would be less correct in my opinion (which follows the betting/calling frequency analysis mason conducted in his works with david for more than just the odds considerations).

-Barron

[amerksmann22]

I know you said they are loose but what raises you here that would not have raised the turn...

a hearts flush but I am not afriad (somewhat likely but I am betting) and something like J9 or Q9 how loose is your opponent. Will he limp utg with these type of hands. How likely is it that he has one of these hands. I think that JT and 98 are out b/c there was no raise on the turn. I am prolly inclined to bet here. I dont want to check the end after showing your aggression on this hand.

[Boris]

Bet and fold if you get raised.

[mike l.]

.

[elysium]

hi mike
don't bet. check-call it. i like the pressure you put on the field to stop the raising. the river though is pretty rough. i don't think that there will be any bluffing or check-raising, so betting has less merit. i think you can use the board horror to pretty confidently call without worry you'll be check-raised. i don't think that this situation qualifies for the 'bet it because betting is better than calling' line of thought. this is board horror.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet and fold if you get raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's bad. why bet? many hand can beat you.

[mike l.]

"this is board horror."

brilliant phrase.

[Josh W]

I agree with Nightwish (and not, repeat NOT andy fox). The question is if you have the Ace of Diamonds, not hearts.

See, if you have Ad, a river check could certainly look like AKd or AQd. Then a worse hand may might maybe perhaps bet, but unlikely.

If you don't have the Ad, then it's more likely that one of your opponents does, and will know you don't, so they will know you have an overpair, and won't bet.

As for betting or checking or calling a raise and whatnot...well, nobody can say who isn't there doing some serious reading. My default would be to bet, and likely fold to a raise, but not always.

My fear of checking would be UTG betting and CO raising, thinking UTG is full of poo. Now it costs you two bets of the calling nature to snap a bluff, instead one bet, and one call.

Ask the dealer for a new river card.

Josh

[Josh W]

Wow. I just reread that. that was my worst post ever ever.

And it's not close.

[mike l.]

i checked the river, it was checked around and my hand was good. chalk this one up to moving up. i just dont feel comfortable yet folding against people i dont really know for one more bet in a $3000 pot.

but it's something im looking forward to getting used to.

[worm33]

I think betting and calling a raise would be bad poker. I think since you dont know your opponetts and cant fold for 1 more bet if they raise, you have to check and call.

[Josh W]

[ QUOTE ]
I think since you dont know your opponetts ...

[/ QUOTE ]

why don't you?

Betting and folding to a raise is very frequently (not always, not 'most of the time', and most certainly not 'never') the very best play. You get calls from other one-pair hands galore that wouldn't bet. Many many many opponents won't bluff raise the river, so you can safely fold to a raise in these situations.

Frequently, betting and folding to a raise maximizes your EV. Obviously, folding to opponents who have a remote chance of bluffing the river isn't wise.

But if you don't know your opponents, you're just gonna lose anyway, so check/call lets you sleep at night.

Josh

[amerksmann22]

[ QUOTE ]
I know you said they are loose but what raises you here that would not have raised the turn...

a hearts flush but I am not afriad (somewhat likely but I am betting) and something like J9 or Q9 how loose is your opponent. Will he limp utg with these type of hands. How likely is it that he has one of these hands. I think that JT and 98 are out b/c there was no raise on the turn. I am prolly inclined to bet here. I dont want to check the end after showing your aggression on this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

My post from before results above.


I really thought you had a value you bet there. If you go through the process, I couldnt find a legit hand they could hold unless they were very loose. Ineresting hand, glad you won and keep dragging pots.

-Stoney