KJo against two fish

[Nate tha' Great]

UTG is tilty and raising very, very light. The trouble is that Button is extremely loose (and aggerssive in the wrong spots; classic fish profile). Both opponents play poorly after the flop and hang on to their hands too long.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Nate Tha' Great is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP folds, <font color="CC3333">Nate Tha' Great 3-bets</font>, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Nate Tha' Great bets</font>, Button calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
UTG checks, Nate Tha' Great checks, Button checks.

River: (6.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Nate Tha' Great calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 9.75 BB, between Nate Tha' Great, Button and UTG.</font>

[King Yao]

given the play on the flop, the post flop seems ok..I mean, I wouldn't do anything differently........the issue i find interesting is the 3 bet with KJo without the Button. what kind of crappy hands must UTG have to raise with for KJo to be a correct 3 bet in the cutoff? if the worst type of hands that he is raising with in this spot are hands like QJo, JTs, A4s, then I think a 3 bet is a poor play. Yes, you will have huge edge over him when he has one of these hands, but a blind squirrel can find a nut once a while too, so sometimes he will have AA, KK or AK. If QJo, JTs, A4s are the worst hands he is raising with UTG, then his average hand will be better than your KJo. Now if he is raising with hands as low as A4o, T9s, K7o, then that's a different story, then his average hand would be worse then KJo. How far down will he raise UTG?

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Now if he is raising with hands as low as A4o, T9s, K7o, then that's a different story, then his average hand would be worse then KJo.

[/ QUOTE ]

That list is pretty representative of the sorts of hands that he was raising with. I was pretty sure that KJo would be a better hand, on the average.

[stripsqueez]

post flop seems fine - what else are you going to do ? - betting the turn against 2 guys who hang onto there hand too much doesnt seem a good plan - i can make a good argument for raising the river if you can stomach folding to a 3 bet and the button isnt so bad that he will call 2 bets with aces up

pre-flop i think fold is a better choice - 3 betting KJo to an UTG raise is a good way to go broke in this game if you did it routinely - doing it to isolate a player who is good odds to have raised with a worse hand and is bad post flop brings it into the realms of possibility - i would rather have a hand with more showdown power though - like a small pair or Axs - with the prospect of the button calling and thereby denying you the button, as well as the blinds behind you, it smacks of pushing too hard

pushing too hard is what you have to be most wary of when you see some idiot stealing bunches of blinds and consistently showing down garbage that you would fold 3 handed on the button - this is of-course the perspective of a comparitive rock who is too lazy to push fine edges whilst 3 tabling and watching telly...

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[yeehor]

so what was the result of the hand nate?

[gonores]

Preflop is such a "you had to be there" play to even garner a comment. Post-flop seems routine. I'm not sure what advice you are looking for, but I think yo uplayed it fine.

[Nate tha' Great]

My two pair were best. UTG had K /images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and Button had 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

[Huskiez]

[ QUOTE ]
Button had 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. Staying in too long with their hands, but that's ridiculous. Yeah chances are no one has an A, K, Q, J, T, or overpair... You must be 3-betting with 98o.