I'm getting so close, guys, so so close!

[Joe Tall]

Stars $22 rebuy tourney. We are on the 3rd pay tier as 10-18 pay more. There are currently 19 left. I have the 2nd to smallest stack.

There is a HUGE stack in the CO to act after me that has been beating up limpers and gobbling up blinds/antes versus small stacks.

Blinds 3000/6000 Ante 300

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t6000 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP (t95421)
CO (t272440)
Button (t82374)
SB (t71277)
BB (t72000)
<font color="red"> Joe Tall (t43840)
</font>

Preflop: Joe Tall is UTG with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="red"> Joe Tall calls t6000, MP calls t6000,</font> CO folds, <font color="red">Button calls t6000, </font> SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (t25500) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Joe Tall bets t12000</font>, MP folds, <font color="CC3333">Button raises to t24000</font>, BB folds, <font color="CC3333">Joe Tall raises to t37540</font>, Button calls t13540.

Comments?

I figured I needed the chips to vault me to the final table, so I limped w/AA.

Thanks for all your help.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Tosh]

I'm all for taking a risk to further chances of placing highly but I just don't like limping. IMO letting BB in for free is just asking for trouble. I'd at least min raise and more likely something like 15-18k. You're a short stack and often people will find any excuse to play against a short stack.

[deacsoft]

I too would put in a raise preflop. I think you have to. I would put in a nice large raise like 1/2 to 2/3 of my stack. If someone wants to call cool. If someone wants to raise it's going to be all-in which is also cool. Worst case senario, everyone folds and I capture the blinds which isn't much but is a step in the right direction.

[Tosh]

IMO JT was right to take a risk in order to get full reward but I just disagree with limping. I would be dissapointed to just take the blinds here but I still don't want BB having a free look.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

With the description Joe's given of CO, maybe he was going for the old limp re-raise if CO tried to steal.

[C M Burns]

I don't think limping is all that bad here since it sounds like you may get re raised anyhow. But if you don't, seeing a flop w/ a few who called a raise vs. called a limp or the BB I don't think will change much (other than just the simple prob of getting beat which coulds happen with any cards) Since in that position you are going to put all your chips in no mattter what i'd assume, and now with your limp the oponents hand that he might play will likley be weaker. So overall i think you increase the risk of busting out but also incease the potential payoff.

Someone did a similar thing to me in a tourny today. Mid late stages, it was folded to the button who limped he had less than half as much as me in the sb and the bb. I complete the sb w/ A8, the flop comes 8 hi with a flush draw, and I end up check raising the small stack allin, who has KK. So he got what he wanted. I'm very suspicious when small stacks limp in ep, but here he kind of surprised me.

[SossMan]

This may be a right time for a mini-raise. If anyone has ever read more than two sentances of mine on this board, they would know how anti-mini-raise I am, esp. UTG. But, the description of the table is such that it seems like the right amount here.
It is just enough of a bet to gain a little info (shouldn't see any really raggedy hands), and entice someone to go crazy on you (esp. the CO).

Given the limp (which I think is the worst option, unless you *know* someone will raise behind you.), I like the way you played the flop.

Good job, lately, Joe...you seem to be at a lot of final tables....you are a quick study, it seems. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[fnord_too]

Limping or raising there is fine I think. In your spot, I think limping was the best move.

After the flop, if your beat you are probably out since I cannot see getting away from aces with that flop. Very scary since the BB could have anything, but unless he has a set you are ahead or not in too bad shape. Hope it worked out.

[Joe Tall]

The button showed A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif hit the turn as I'm out 19th.

This is my best place yet, everytime I play one I seem to get up a little closer to the final table. (Unless I run into a set-up)

I should have made a min-raise here to 12k and pray that some large stack plays back at me. Once I saw the 2nd limper, I knew it was going to be trouble.

Thanks for you responses,
Joe Tall

[Joe Tall]

IMO letting BB in for free is just asking for trouble. I'd at least min raise and more likely something like 15-18k

I agree. I think one of the big stacks may try to steal my raise had I made a min-one.

Peace Tosh,
Joe Tall

[Joe Tall]

If anyone has ever read more than two sentances of mine on this board, they would know how anti-mini-raise I am, esp. UTG

I am anti-min but it did cross my mind as this seems like the right place to do so, hopefully getting a bigger stack to play back at me.

Good job, lately, Joe...you seem to be at a lot of final tables

Well that's the thing. It's hands like this the keep me off the "final" table. I have made the money in my last three (besides a KK vs AA, QQ vs AK) and I've finished higher each time.

you are a quick study, it seems

Well, I did go from playing 1/2 online to playing 15/30 and this weekend I'm moving up to the 20/40 at Foxwoods, in one year. I hope my NL-tourney play would increase in half the pace. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Thanks for your responses to my posts. I appreciate the feed back.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Given your description of the CO, your limp is fine. Too bad he didn't oblige you by raising.

On the flop, you might as well push in right away. Why give anyone else a chance to catch another card? Button could have a diamond draw with TP as easily as a hand like TT.

[Joe Tall]

Given your description of the CO, your limp is fine. Too bad he didn't oblige you by raising.

Once the other stack limped between us, I knew there be less of a chance the big stack would take a stab, as he was isolating smaller stacks.

I just don't think there is any way the button gets off this hand on the flop.

I like Tosh's idea of a 15k-18k raise, this may have 'baited' the big stack and cleared out the smaller stacks.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
Given your description of the CO, your limp is fine. Too bad he didn't oblige you by raising.

On the flop, you might as well push in right away. Why give anyone else a chance to catch another card? Button could have a diamond draw with TP as easily as a hand like TT.

[/ QUOTE ]

It really depends how aggressive CO is IMO. Unless he is an extreme bully I'd just like to make sure the pot is raised a bit. Maybe if he is that aggressive he'd see weakness in a small raise and come over the top anyway. I also think that Joe, although a short stack, isn't totally desperate yet. If he had 20k maybe a limp followed by a push on any flop would work but I'm still not convinced here.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
you are a quick study, it seems

Well, I did go from playing 1/2 online to playing 15/30 and this weekend I'm moving up to the 20/40 at Foxwoods, in one year. I hope my NL-tourney play would increase in half the pace. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Show off. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I won't stoop to that level though ! /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Joe Tall]

I won't stoop to that level though !

It'll be tough to 'stoop' when you are nearly at the same 'level'. I know we are talking about different 'levels' but you are right up there, I see you are in the 15 now! WTG!

Oh, and I meant if my NL game were to grow at 1/2 the pace of my limit game, I'd be happy. Then in 2 years, I'd be ready for a 'real' tournament!

Thanks for your help, Tosh, you've got a 'leg up' on me over in this forum, I can tell!

And just think, aren't you glad I sent you that PM when you disappeared?? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif Eventhough I've seen you quote, "I wish I never discovered poker."?!?

Thanks again, bro,
Joe Tall

[MuckMuck]

Joe, first off nice job. I was at your table for a little bit and ended up finnishing 8th :-( In regards to how you played this hand I think as a small stack in that situation you're almost giving away the strength of your hand by limping. I know I'd ask myself what the hell is he limping with as a small stack? So, why not raise all in....if no one calls you increase your stack by 25% if you get a caller your obviously ahead. Being shortstacked people will put you on desperate and often call with mediocre hands there. Also, on the flop I would have moved all in...12k is easier to call on a draw and I cant see a scenario where you're getting away from that hand. I understand that your trying to build a stack and go for the big money but I think you could have gone about this differently.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
And just think, aren't you glad I sent you that PM when you disappeared?? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif Eventhough I've seen you quote, "I wish I never discovered poker."?!?

Thanks again, bro,
Joe Tall

[/ QUOTE ]

Aye that PM convinced me to come back, after a 3 month period without any playing. I guess my total playing time is around 7 months and I'm pretty happy to be where I am.

The quote you mention is half true for personal reasons, but in other ways I'm very glad to be playing.

[Joe Tall]

I was at your table for a little bit and ended up finnishing 8th :-(

Great job Mucks! I saw ya! You mean you didn't like my answer to: MuckMuck says, "JoeTall....2+2?", I replied, "4" - followed by a wink ;^) ?!? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

In regards to how you played this hand I think as a small stack in that situation you're almost giving away the strength of your hand by limping.

Once the first player limpped after me, I realized it. I sent off an flare w/a UTG limp.

However, I like Tosh's 15-18k raise idea. Enough to get a bigger stack to play back or a medium stack to gamble.

Well, done. I've seen you before in the top 100 at my table, and hope we'll see each other again!

Peace Mucks,
Joe Tall

[MuckMuck]

Thanks Joe...Loved the reply to my question...ha ha. Tough way to go out AA v.s A8 but keep up the good work and hopefully I'll get to play a final table with you. BTW, I'm pissed I only finnished in 8th as I got snapped by KJ with AK all in preflop that cut me in half and I had to limp to the final table. Grrr there's always tomorrow to hit the big win.

Goodluck,
Muck

[ZootMurph]

This is pretty funny post, since I went all in twice in two orbits in a similar situation with AA and got no calls. I was below the average stack at the time. 21 players left, next level at 20, and big money at the final table. I showed both times, and I had some guy telling me I should have tried to get value. I said, with the blinds so high, I'm getting value.

He went out shortly slowplaying KK vs. K5o in the blind. 5 hit the flop, KK went all in and K5 (smaller stack), called. 5 hit the River and he is down to almost nothing. Out two hands later. I place 3rd and make a nice payday.

The point: Make people PAY to break a big hand. Don't give them a cheap shot at you. I'm HAPPY to take the blinds when they are getting big. I'm even HAPPIER to double up if someone wants to call me. I'm NOT happy when situations like this happen, where I let someone in and they beat me. At worst, you should throw a minimum raise down to take out the blinds.

[MuckMuck]

Is your Handle Murph the dog or something like that? I figured you were going to finnish near the top you were playing well...let me guess Sexy Melva got caught stealing and a earlier exit then she should have?

[drewjustdrew]

I agree totally with this point. MuckMuck is the first one to point out the most important thing. Blinds are high enough that it becomes a good win for JoeTall. If someone wants to call, good for you.

[gcDanno]

I have to agree 100% with Muck. In the PS $215 I just finished 50th in, at one point, when a low stack, I had KK UTG. I could have limped / min raised and probably had 2 or 3 callers. Instead, I bet all in, and no callers. I was very happy at this point to add 1/3 to my chips.

AA and KK usually win small pots or lose big ones. I prefer the W. Remember this!
gc

[Philuva]

[ QUOTE ]
AA and KK usually win small pots or lose big ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is completely untrue. I am not saying you shouldn't go all-in with a short stack and the blinds large, but this statement is false.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]

AA and KK usually win small pots or lose big ones. I prefer the W. Remember this!
gc

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to agree with Philuva, but this is completely untrue. I know it comes from Super System, but it is a pretty out of date idea IMO.