Psychology of the Sweat

[Festus22]

I see almost daily "come sweat me" posts and was wondering what the purpose of the sweat"er" and the sweat"ee" is. I would think time on-line is precious and every hour spent sweating someone is an hour of lost potential income. Is it just a moral support thing? Cheering for on of your own and taking some small satisfaction from their success? And does the person playing enjoy the support, get more motivation from it or is it something like come see how good I am thing?

I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other but frankly, I just don't quite understand the concept. Please explain.

This probably should be in the Psychology forum but I'll post it here since this is where the majority of requests occur.

Thanks!

[daryn]

when i'm "sweating" someone, it's not like the world stops spinning. i just open their tourney window. i still play poker if that's what i was doing.

when i'm in a tourney myself and doing well, it always helps to have a cheering section. also, if you're slipping a bit as far as your play, having people from the zoo watch you can straighten you out, because you know you'll have to explain any crazy plays you make!

[thomastem]

Daryn touched on a benefit in that you are less likely to tilt and more likely to play solid because there is an educated audience. Same thing I get with my critters after a session. I hate the "I told you so." look Phil the crazed cow gives me after a bad play where I knew better.

[La Brujita]

My computer screen handles four tables at once and lately I have been concentrating on one tournament at a time so it is not a big deal to open another window.

I sweat people for the following reasons:

1. We are a (online) community and it makes the person playing feel good.

2. I watch a lot of tournament poker to improve my game so watching a good player benefits me as well

3. It gives me some psychological benefit to see that posters on this site do well.

I occasionally ask to be sweated for the following reasons:

1. It adds a bit of excitement to the tourney for me to have others watch

2. There are so many tournaments when you bust out on the bubble or get outdrawn it is nice to get some positive feedback when you get your share of luck

3. Any comments after the game from the watchers can only help my game

Regards

[TylerD]

[ QUOTE ]
it makes the person playing feel good.


[/ QUOTE ]

This, I would muse, is the main reason for asking for "sweat", they want recognition for their achievements. Nothing wrong with that, just human nature.

[GrannyMae]

from la brujita

1. We are a (online) community and it makes the person playing feel good.
3. It gives me some psychological benefit to see that posters on this site do well.

while i am not sure there is much difference between 1&2, these are the only 2 reasons i sweat.

from mr. tyler

This, I would muse, is the main reason for asking for "sweat", they want recognition for their achievements. Nothing wrong with that, just human nature.

i think this varies on the individual. i can't agree more that recognition after fighting through a long tourney is a trait that is certainly part of human nature, but i don't think it applies to 'most'. maybe a majority, but not most.

i began online sweating late 2001-ish with lorinda. we would sweat each other several times a week. it was MUCH easier in those days because there were only a few events happening a week so it was easy to find each other. at that time, the TOTAL players online came to less than 3,000-4,000 people (on a good night). we were sweat buddies. while i'm not sure what lorinda got out of it, for me it was always about discipline. as daryn and others mentioned, people play better when they know they are being watched.

so, is it a tool or is it ego? i think it is a bit of both, but most importantly it makes this a much closer community here. i don't know if the zoo has an over abundance of the top players online posting here or whether there are so many tourneys and therefore so many winners scoring. however, i am amazed at the amount of NICE wins that our members achieve several times a week.

the 80 person multi i won yesterday was fun, but was an absolutely tiny tourney in comparison to the others in terms of entrants and payout. i don't even feel it was a big accomplishment. however, i can tell you with 100% certainty that mike haven and shauna being vocal on the rail made me lay down 5 or 6 hands preflop that i might have played with "no witnesses". passing on those hands probably put the $1,400 in the bank so i can't ignore the power of the sweat.

finally, nothing gives me greater pleasure than logging in an seeing that richard won 450k, zee won another 20k, morgant won 30k, cuppy won seats on the boat, ed is climbing the leader board, cubby is going to austria etc etc etc.

those that know me and read the flame war i had with the kooks in the rigged thread know that when he made the comment to other readers that "granny should be ignored because there are other nice people here that are constructive.. blah blah", shows that this poster THOUGHT he knew me but has no clue.

i don't play poker for a living anymore. i played for a living in B&M's a decade ago. my role in this community is to be the edgy humorist, a mentor, sometimes the backer, and always the sweater.

do i learn from this place? absolutely. i have learned much about NL, ALL from the zoo. i have 2 copies of super system but won't open them cuz' i want to preserve the spine. my education in NL has come from here and only here. i DO have a huge aspiration, and that is to play the championship event in the wsop. beyond that, poker is just a game for me. this game has led me here and has led me to many friends.

i'll never need to play poker to pay the bills, so i have not nearly as much vested in online play as many many of our young and/or seasoned veterans here. BUT, when kooks come though spouting the low integrity of the games with no clue that the "live" games in the past had more collusion happening than most would believe, my defenses go up. they don't go up for me, they go up for the zeejustins and the gotmilks and the loris and the cuppys and cubbys et al. this is a group of people that pay the bills with poker.

if all the kooks get loud enough, then dumbass people like journaists and the government start listening and maybe believing some of it. this type of press/exposure is HORRIBLE for poker. i dare say that one or two stories on shows like 60minutes and dateline that examined the legalities of poker online and threw in the colluding aspect and finsihed the interview with some KOOK with a phd spouting some bullshit about pattern maps, faulty rng's and/or juiced flops, then we would see the numbers of new players crash OVERNIGHT. if this happens, the growth is over, the party is through. it would beget a cannibalistic society of sharks and encourage the medium sites to INDEED juice the flops.

when i get nasty with a kook, it is not just for the sport or fun of it, it is for a massively larger picture.


Granny Mae-Malmuth
Professional Zoo-Sweater
GOON extrodinaire
Greatest friend on the planet, WORST enemy in the universe

http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/rantoff.gif

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
I see almost daily "come sweat me" posts and was wondering what the purpose of the sweat"er" and the sweat"ee" is. I would think time on-line is precious and every hour spent sweating someone is an hour of lost potential income. Is it just a moral support thing? Cheering for on of your own and taking some small satisfaction from their success? And does the person playing enjoy the support, get more motivation from it or is it something like come see how good I am thing?

I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other but frankly, I just don't quite understand the concept. Please explain.

This probably should be in the Psychology forum but I'll post it here since this is where the majority of requests occur.

Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

I like to be sweated for two reasons. Number one, I think it helps me play better and number two I think there's an emotional edge if other's know you are being sweated. For example, you are playing someone and win a nice pot and three or four people say quote, "Go Stew, Zoo Rules...". The opponents you are playing don't like that and it could cause them to come off their A game (if they even have one).

As far as sweating people goes, I do it b/c I ask people to do it for me. If I'm going to ask people to sweat me, I'll sweat them. Second, I feel like this is a community and I root for those that are in this community to do well and I like to see that and support them as I know what that support means to me. Third, I like to watch good players play and learn from them. There are some very, very good players in this forum and when they want sweated, I come watch them play. For example, last night, I was sitting with eMark for quite soome time. I am nowhere near the player he is (at least I don't think so). But, I learn by watching him and others of his caliber play. It was an honor to play against him last night with a lot of money (for me) on the line. I did learn something from watching him play as well. He is ultra-aggressive, especially when it comes to blind stealing. I tend not to be, b/c when I do with marginal hands, I find myself making post-flop mistakes (which was what happened when I got heads-up last night). Anyway, he doesn't tend to do that as much as I. Yes, I knocked him out, but what was he to do. The flop came 10 high, he had Q,10 and I had 10,10. You are probably going to lose all your money on that hand in his position (he was short stacked and had over half his money in the pot pre-flop, I believe).

Ultimately, it comes down to this. I have learned a lot and my game would be nowhere what it is without the people in this forum. If they want support and sweat, I owe it to them. Additionally, it is a learning experience for me. Nothing like learning from the best. Why do you think people play KOTZ, Granny's tourney's and other contests such as those. They are not +EV propositions (they probably aren't even +EV for the most skilled player in the group). They are excellent learning opportunities, a chance to play with others that you post with and just a lot of fun. Nothing like testing your skills against the best.

[morgant]

i think all of the reasons for being the sweater or sweatee have been exhausted but i will reinforce the reasons already brought forward. it took me a while to ask people to sweat me, i was new, didnt want people to see me make assanine plays..etc..
When i did ask for the sweat, i think it helps quite a bit. just the fact that respected people are watching you play does bring my game up a notch(gotta pretend they are watching all the time everytime!!!), plus there is monday morning quaterbacking with sweaters who are typically equally or superior players themselves.
i also love to sweat, people do it for me, i should show support for them, plus i am learning about tournament poker everytime i watch a tourney, hand reading skills are being worked on etc...plus it is great to see a fellow a poster get in the money, and it provides motivation to get in there myself.


finally, it feels great to get recognized after you play for 6hours and place well in a tournament.

[GrannyMae]

Why do you think people play KOTZ, ... They are not +EV propositions

this is an excellent point. i dare say that kotz is EV- for ALL players if they are abandoning the fishy games to participate. however, this participation makes people zoo 'citizens'. once a citizen, animals feel more comfortable asking for advice, others will render it quicker, and all benefit.

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/_950/friendship.gif

[daveymck]

Probably for the first time since you came back I finally see why you were previously revered by the masses here.

Excellent post.