4 NL situations

[davidross]

Another WSOP qualifier on Party last night. I started out well, doubling up early when my opponent slowplayed his AQ on a Q high flop against my JJ, then I spiked my J on the turn. It was all downhill after that.

1) Blinds are 10/20 and I open raise with JJ(2045) for 60 and get cold calles in MP (1400) and by the BB. Flop is 7 5 4 rainbow. I bet 200 and MP calls. Turn is K. I bet 200 and he calls again. River is 6. I check and he bets 250. I call. He has 87s.

2) Blinds are 15/30. Aggressive Know it all (1745) makes it 90 from the cutoff. I am in the BB(1260) and call the extra 60 with Kc Qc. Flop is Qs 9d 2s. I check, he bets 130 and I call. Turn is 9c. I check, he bets 330 and I call. RIver is Ad, I check and he pushes all in and I fold. Yuck.

3) I have won the blinds twice on this orbit with all in pushes (AT and AK) to bring my stack back up to 925. BLinds are 25/50. UTG (1173) raises to 200. I have 99 in MP and I fold. After 2 all ins I didn't think I'd get a lot of respect and although I'm willing to flip a coin at this point I think there is too big a chance that I'm way behind.

4) I'm at 825 after posting my BB. Blinds now 50/100. Button makes it 300 to go. I have Kh 7h and I call 200 more. FLop is Ac 9c 2s. I check/fold. Am I in the re-raise or fold mode with this stack size?

After winning a couple of all-ins without showing (AK both times) I got the situation I was hoping for when a button raised, I went all-in with AQ and he called with A4s. Unfortunately his flush came and I was done. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[BigBiceps]

1. this happens, at least he had a legitimate hand on the flop, I have been drawn out with alot worse.

2. if you thought your hand was good on the flop then I think you should have bet or check raised the flop to see where you stood.

3. that is a normal fold against an UTG raise on a full table.

4. I think you should either fold your BB or go all-in. Calling for 1/4 of your stack with K7 preflop doesn't seem very good. You did not list the button's stack size.

[fnord_too]

2) You have got to protect your hand here, it is very vulnerable. I think I'd go for a check raise on the flop; if your opponent doesn't cooperate, bet out on the turn unless a scare card comes. Check calling in a cash game may be ok if you think your opponent will bluff off some money, but in a tournament it is more important to take down the pot than to wring every last chip you can.

[Savo]

David,
Love your posts so thought i'd just give a quick reponse for what its worth.
Hand 1. Preflop raise is a little small. I know its 3xBB but its early and whatever level you play at there's someone who'll call for far too much, raise more.....
Hand 2. You check called twice......he may have nothing but smelt weakness.
Hand 3. AK and A10 all in to win not much. you only see a few decent hands in a tourney so sometimes you need to play them less aggressive than that. I know A10 isn't a monster so how about a large feeler bet?
Hand 4. I think that call is just too much....if you intend to call which i probably wouldn't, you might as well push in.

Haha, if that's garbage please feel free to flame.
Savo

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Blinds are 10/20 and I open raise with JJ(2045) for 60 and get cold calles in MP (1400) and by the BB. Flop is 7 5 4 rainbow. I bet 200 and MP calls. Turn is K. I bet 200 and he calls again. River is 6. I check and he bets 250. I call. He has 87s.


[/ QUOTE ]

Bet bigger on the turn. This looks like top pair or a draw (and in fact it was both), and you want to make him pay. Betting just 200 into a pot of ~600 makes it way too attractive to him to call. I'd bet the pot or close to it here.

[ QUOTE ]
2) Blinds are 15/30. Aggressive Know it all (1745) makes it 90 from the cutoff. I am in the BB(1260) and call the extra 60 with Kc Qc. Flop is Qs 9d 2s. I check, he bets 130 and I call. Turn is 9c. I check, he bets 330 and I call. RIver is Ad, I check and he pushes all in and I fold. Yuck.


[/ QUOTE ]

Given your read, I'd be pretty damn sure that I have him beat on the flop. I'm either betting out or check-raising that flop. Every sucessive card that falls make your hand worse, and once you got to the river, I think folding was reasonable; it sure looks like a 9.

[ QUOTE ]
3) I have won the blinds twice on this orbit with all in pushes (AT and AK) to bring my stack back up to 925. BLinds are 25/50. UTG (1173) raises to 200. I have 99 in MP and I fold. After 2 all ins I didn't think I'd get a lot of respect and although I'm willing to flip a coin at this point I think there is too big a chance that I'm way behind.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think this fold is fine. If you had a read on him as being particularly loose/aggressive, then pushing would get better. Certainly calling is by far the worst of your options (I don't know if you considered it, but with this stack, it's just too much of your stack to hope for a favorable flop).

[ QUOTE ]
4) I'm at 825 after posting my BB. Blinds now 50/100. Button makes it 300 to go. I have Kh 7h and I call 200 more. FLop is Ac 9c 2s. I check/fold. Am I in the re-raise or fold mode with this stack size?


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are. Actually, you have a very good size stack to stop-and-go (call and push on any flop). He pretty much has to call an all-in from you here, but if you call then push for another 500 into a pot of ~600 he would probably lay down if he missed (and, generally, one usually does). I think calling over 1/3 of your stack with the intention of folding if you miss the flop is probably your worst option.

Chris

[eMarkM]

1) Eh, what are you going to do? I think you played the hand fine. Lucky he didn't charge you more on the end.

2) I don't like the passive play here. Often I lead out on a flop like this and see what he thinks. If he comes over the top, maybe consider he has big pocket pair or AQ. Or you can check raise, I don't like the check calling here at all, you never really knew where you were at in the hand.

3) Hmmm, tough one. It's all in or fold. It's close, but folding isn't terrible.

4) Ewww. Either push and try to get a lay down or fold. I don't like calling off a quarter of my stack just to meekly fold on the flop. Calling is ok if you plan on pushing in on any flop, which isn't a bad play at all, but you'd have to be willing to push on any flop and hope the other guy missed.

[davidross]

Hey man.

1) Would you call the river bet?

2) Everyone seems to agree on this one.I guess this is my ring game thinking, let him bluff it off.

4) I'm thinking i probably should fold this. This guy had been pretty straight forward. I'm probably behind.

Looking forward to Vegas. I'm trying again tonight.

[davidross]

3) I made the play with AT when I was down to 775. I didn't like the thought of putting 200 in and then if I had to fold being left with les than 600. I gambled that I would only get called by a monsterand I would steal the blinds. Then with any luck I would pick up a good hand and maybe get a call the 2nd time. Unfortunately with AK no one called again. The 99 I was pretty sure would be called so I waited.

[davidross]

Thanks. I really like your analysis of the hands. On teh first hand I think I was afraid of the K and didn't want to bet the pot as I would normally do.

[Tosh]

Does noone think David can lay down hand 1 on the river ? I mean would A7 really bet here ?

[davidross]

I used every second trying to come up with a reason to call. My 10 year old kept saying to fold, I should have listened to him.

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks. I really like your analysis of the hands. On teh first hand I think I was afraid of the K and didn't want to bet the pot as I would normally do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Generally, I ignore overcards (and especially non-ace overcards) that fall after a player has called a flop bet. While internet players may not always be the sharpest knives in the drawer, most of them have figured out that if you are drawing at overcards, you should probably either fold or raise and hope to take it there. I suppose something like K7 is *possible*, but I kinda doubt it.

Now, if you bet 500-600 and he comes over the top, well, then I think he probably has a K, but I think a good turn bet might have taken it down (hard to say though; depends on the player).

[Daithi]

It looks like everyone else has already made some great comments, but I'd like to add a comment for hands #1 and #2.

Whenever faced with a decision I always ask myself the following questions:
1) What hands can beat me?
2) What hands will pay me off? (note: not what can I beat)
3) Which hand does my opponent most likely have?

So I would have folded hand #1 on the river. What hand could be be betting that I could beat?

As for hand #2 I think it is the worst of the lot.

You say the CO is an aggressive know it all, so I am going to assume he has raised your blind before. Now you get raised and have KQs. I would have made it 300 to go here.

You played it really passively. Passive preflop, passive on the flop, and passive on the turn. It is one thing to get drowned on the river, but passive play is committing suicide. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[kenstall]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Blinds are 10/20 and I open raise with JJ(2045) for 60 and get cold calles in MP (1400) and by the BB. Flop is 7 5 4 rainbow. I bet 200 and MP calls. Turn is K. I bet 200 and he calls again. River is 6. I check and he bets 250. I call. He has 87s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the flop required a larger bet. The preflop bet wasn't enough to push out suited connectors so you need to show more strength on the flop. If you're called you can figure on a smaller pair than yours or a draw (most likely). A re-raise would require a read (68 suited, trips, or does he re-raise with a draw). As you played it you definately need to bet large on the turn.

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]

I think the flop required a larger bet. The preflop bet wasn't enough to push out suited connectors...

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because you'd call with suited connectors... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Hee hee. Welcome to 2+2 Jake.

[kenstall]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I think the flop required a larger bet. The preflop bet wasn't enough to push out suited connectors...

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because you'd call with suited connectors... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Calling a min raise from BB holding suited connectors with one other caller is no question. 5:1

[ QUOTE ]
Hee hee. Welcome to 2+2 Jake.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanx

[Guy McSucker]

My 2c.

Hand 1 looks fine to me. My instinct is to bet bigger on the turn, say 600, but the problem is that I think I have to call if he then moves in. If he was lucky enoughto flop a set or straight, or if he is dumb enough to have KQ or K7, I lose all my chips. I like the way you played it, keeping the pot small enough that you can get to the showdown.

Hand 2. I would tend to bet out on this flop. Taking the pot down is a prime concern in NL tournaments! There's a good chance you're ahead here, and betting out is the quickest and cheapest way to find out the truth and/or win the pot.

I don't really like going for the check-raise because you end up committing too many chips against a guy who is showing strength.

Hand 3. This is a good fold. Nice situational thinking.

Hand 4. The one thing you shouldn't do with your stack is call a raise preflop and check-fold the flop. Fold preflop, or move in preflop, or stop-and-go. With your stack size, if I played at all, I would stop-and-go: call the preflop raise and push in on any flop after a sensible delay, long enough to have read the flop but not long enough to have agonized!

The all-in reraise preflop gets called more often than a push on the flop in my experience. You would love a fold here, so stop-and-go is a very good move, if you're going to play, especially when you'll have about a pot-size bet left to fire.

Personally, I would probably just muck preflop and hope to be able to make the first move some time very soon.

Guy.

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling a min raise from BB holding suited connectors with one other caller is no question. 5:1


[/ QUOTE ]

It wasn't a min raise, it was 3x the BB. With one caller, and your call closing the action, calling from the BB is still pretty enticing though.

-Picky Chris