Not a bad beat post [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

ebranig

05-06-2004, 03:17 AM

I'm not posting for sympathy, do people check/raise the flop or wait till the turn. I think I made a mistake by waiting. Thoughts?

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players) 
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players) 
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP3 calls $0.75 (All-In), Button calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, Button calls.

River: (13.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players, 1 all-in) 
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Button calls, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls $1 (All-In), Button calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB
Main Pot: 9.75 BB, between MP3, Button, Hero and UTG+1. > Pot won by UTG+1 (9.75 BB).
Pot 2: 9.75 BB, between Button, Hero and UTG+1. > Pot won by UTG+1 (9.75 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Js Jh (full house, jacks full of tens).
UTG+1 shows Tc Qc (four of a kind, tens).
MP3 shows Kd 4d (full house, tens full of fours).
Button shows 9c 9d (full house, tens full of nines).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 19.50 BB.

SoCalPat

05-06-2004, 04:31 AM

This is how I would do it.

First, my condolences on losing this hand. But the only way you were going to win it is if you bet out and got UTG+1 to fold. And if he's going to bet into a field with middle pair, it's highly unlikely he'd fold to your flop bet.

On the flop, you have to bet out. You raised PF, you're out of position and the likelihood of some straight draws out there is very real. In fact, you want to be raised here. That can only happen by betting out. See how much action you have, then go for the C/R when a blank hits the turn.

The issue with that in this hand, however, is that anything but a blank hit. It gave you top boat and very likely improved an opponent (or two, both of whom would be drawing dead ... too bad that wasn't the case here) to a strong second-best hand.

By going for the C/R, you likely cost yourself bets (unless someone is holding T4, then it's going to be capped anyway, regardless of who bets out). If you bet out, you'll likely get a raise from someone holding a T. You can then make it three bets. But if you go for the C/R, it's unlikely that someone holding a singleton T would make it 3 bets himself.

Plus, when you C/R them on the turn, the most you could possibly collect from them on the river is one BB (unless the river paired their kicker). You're not going to be raised here.

And if both Ts are out there, you might get a situation where one thinks his hand is good (and won't stop raising), while the other would rather just call for one bet (wary of the full house), but can't let the hand go in spite of all the raises.

Anytime you make a huge hand on the turn or river, bet out and let your opponents give you the chance to make it 3 bets by raising.