Party 30/60 : 88 in the SB

[GuyOnTilt]

This hand is pretty SOP, but this was my first online session in a couple weeks, and my first 30/60 online session in a few months, so for some reason my brain isn't working all that well.

I'm in the SB with 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. UTG+1 open-limps (unusual for this table; he's loose/passive all the way; too many flops, too many SD's), UTG+2 over-limps (tight/aggressive player, plays solid in my 15 games), Button raises (no read), I semi-coldcalls, BB folds, limpers call. 4 to the flop for 9 SB's.

Flop comes: K /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I bet out, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 raises. Button folds, and I 3-bet. I think this is the best way of trapping the loose EP player, as he'll most likely call here with any pair and any gutshot, but would fold to 2 bets on the turn with both. EP calls 2 bets, EMP caps, we both call. 3 to the turn for 10.5 BB's.

Turn comes: 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I check, EP checks, EMP bets. I check-raise, EP drops, EMP 3-bets, I cap, he calls.

River comes: K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

What's my play? Is this as standard as I think it might be? My pokering is a little rusty in general due to my lack of hours in the past 6 weeks, and my online pokering in particular.

GoT

[Vehn]

Doing anything other than checking and calling would be horrible poker.

[bicyclekick]

I disagree with vehn. You really think that T/A player would limp with 1010 or k10? I don't.

I dunno, his turn 3 bet is interesting, though. Only reasonable hand is 1010.

I still bet and call a raise. Then again I suck.

[Vehn]

He almost certainly has KTs.

[AJo Go All In]

if your read is right you are almost certainly screwed.

it looks a lot like he has KT with a slim shot at TT or JcQc that he went a little nuts with. check and call.

[WarmonkEd]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with vehn. You really think that T/A player would limp with 1010 or k10? I don't.

I dunno, his turn 3 bet is interesting, though. Only reasonable hand is 1010.

I still bet and call a raise. Then again I suck.



[/ QUOTE ]

If he doesn't have KT or TT, what else could he have that's worth capping the flop and 3 betting the turn?

[Tosh]

Check and call. It seems damn near certain he has TT or KTs. I can't see any other possibilities.

[bicyclekick]

Man I was thinking terribly. I'll blame it on having just woken up from a 2 hour nap. Wow that's bad. If he doesn't have k10 or 1010 he's a moron and a maniac. check and call is correct.

[GuyOnTilt]

Here's what's been said so far:

If he doesn't have k10 or 1010 he's a moron and a maniac. check and call is correct.

Doing anything other than checking and calling would be horrible poker. He almost certainly has KTs.

Check and call. It seems damn near certain he has TT or KTs. I can't see any other possibilities.


I think I made it clear that my opponent was neither moron nor maniac. So just about everybody so far has put my opponent on KTs or TT and virtually no chance of anything else. So why should I call if he bets? Just playing devil's advocate...

GoT

[Vehn]

Because I don't think its possible to really KNOW someone in online poker enough so that you can realistically say "there is less than a 10% chance I have the best hand here".

[SinCityGuy]

I haven't ever played Party 30/60. First of all, congratulations on getting into the game, as there are usually 200 people on the waiting list.

19.5 BB's going into the river. I suppose that's good enough to check/call and have a slim hope to see a weirdly played AA, AKs or Q/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif

[DocHollyday]

Dear guy,

May be I stand pretty alone with my opinion, but I have difficulties to put UTG2 on either KT or TT. First if he's tight aggressive he's more likely to fold KT in this position (small chance he'll play it, if it suited), further I think he'd raise a TT here to get UTG1 headsup. Am I completly wrong with that assumption?

I'm more likely to put him on a hand like Q /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif. Would make sense, if he plays his open ender agressive on the flop and than picks up a flush draw at the turn for 15 outs.

My play would be to bet out and call if raised.

Cheers

Doc

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Doc,

So you seem to think that this particular player wouldn't have KT or TT preflop here very often, which is understandable. But after the postflop action, you need to be willing to reevaluate. But let's say that you're right and that his most likely hand is Q /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif. In fact, let's say that you're really, really right, and that his range of hands is 10% KTs, 10% TT, and 80% QJc. Now tell me again, why am I betting the river?

GoT

[Little Fishy]

when I first read your post I put the other guy on KT, this would explain his post flop play, however it doesn't necesarily explain his preflop play. I'd say that most likely he has KT, however he may have played an open ended strait draw agressivly and then cuaght the flush draw on the turn. He might have a hand like Q /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif or J /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif or he might have been really overplaying something like AK. I think your move is to check and call on the end. he might shoot at you with a slightly worse hand, but I doubt he'd call with a looser, and he might raise you if you bet.

[DocHollyday]

Hey Guy,

Good question! Actually I was so concerned about what he was holding, that I didn't think about, that he of course would muck a QJs to your river bet.

Actually it is hard to find a reason to bet. Is it possible, that he wouldn't raise an AKs preflop? Its a darn good question!

[Tosh]

If he has QJ /images/graemlins/club.gif thats even more reason to check call the river. Give him a chance to bluff his missed draw.

[GuyOnTilt]

I checked and called. My opponent showed K /images/graemlins/heart.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif and was good. I do think something could be said for check-folding the river. I was in a very similar situation at the Commerce in a 20 game once where I did check-fold the river with bottom set when the top card paired headsup, but I decided to call here. Probably for the best, but maybe not. It's close either way.

GoT

[GuyOnTilt]

First of all, congratulations on getting into the game, as there are usually 200 people on the waiting list.

If I had to wait on that huge list, there's no way I'd ever play Party's 30/60. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

GoT

[Tosh]

Its not especially releveant but I think your opponent really overplayed his hand here.

[DcifrThs]

G,

if i have to call my weak flush, you have to call this river. althoug it is almost certain your are beat, if at any point in time its REMOTELY possibly he overplayed his hand then you must call. pot is huge at this point and you need to be like over 95 or 98% certain he's got you beat.

clearly the k is NOT what you wanted to see and it cost you nice pot but thats it, you lost the minimum when you didn't have it and got the most in when you did. so good job with respect to that.

definately a check call on the end. you MUST. although its SOOO slim that you're ahead, one time winning makes up for allllll those times losing...and if it DOESNT make up for all those times (call =-EV) then its soooo close that i'd still say call.

good luck and see you on the felt battlefield.
-Barron

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]

If I had to wait on that huge list, there's no way I'd ever play Party's 30/60. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm amazed they haven't at least added a 3rd and maybe 4th 30/60 table yet. They clearly have the demand for it.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If I had to wait on that huge list, there's no way I'd ever play Party's 30/60. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm amazed they haven't at least added a 3rd and maybe 4th 30/60 table yet. They clearly have the demand for it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Last I heard, they're not planning to do this anytime soon. They're worried about the fish busting out. However, I do hope that they at least fix the "cut in line" bug that GoT apparently exploited.

[GuyOnTilt]

However, I do hope that they at least fix the "cut in line" bug that GoT apparently exploited.

No way, dude. That would mean waiting in line. And everybody knows that waiting in line sucks.

GoT

[Enon]

Oh man, its such a great bug. I cut in line once for the 30/60 and this railbird who was waiting in line, about 2nd, started cussing me out and telling me he was going to report me.

[dmk]

could you elaborate for those ignorant and less unfortunate? /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[CrackerZack]

I thought it was fixed and would not elaborate if it isn't.

It really isn't fixed? god they suck.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought it was fixed and would not elaborate if it isn't.

It really isn't fixed? god they suck.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it's still not fixed. And neither are the other waiting list bugs.

And yes, please do not elaborate on this. There are too many people abusing this as it is.

[GuyOnTilt]

could you elaborate for those ignorant and less unfortunate?

Grammar police! And no, nobody should be elaborating here.

GoT

[Tosh]

I know they don't want their fish busting out too quickly but the waiting list is always huge. They could run a couple more and not make any difference. It would just mean shorter waiting lists and people paying them rake instead of waiting.

[DcifrThs]

they get a proportionally HIGHER rake from those waiting players playing a lower limit game.

it is the best in terms of business for them to keep it the way it is.

-Barron