Extracting the most money out of calling stations???

[pokerraja]

Well last night was a funny session for me. I played NL100 (6-handed) at PP for a couple of hours and ended the session at $190. but im not happy with my play last night. This was a terrible table. maybe one of the worst that I have ever seen. They would call with any piece of the flop, they would call thier red pocket jacks when there are four club cards on the board. You get the point, I really felt like I was the only good player here. I made a profit, but I'm still frustrated. I dont feel like I took advantage of their bad play.

The way I made money was by playing quality cards from their respective postions etc etc... I dont feel I took advantage of this table on a few occasions. My real problem is that I need to learn how to extract the most money out of these calling stations when I'm sitting on the nuts. For example I flopped the nut flush against one other caller. flop was 3 clubs. I bet $4 and $6, afer flop and turn he calls both, and then river shows fourth club. I show deception by waiting 10 seconds before checking to him. He then bets out $15. Now I'm sitting on nut flush here. my question is how much over the top do I go? I'm scared to bet too much cuz he might fold. So I double his bet to $30, and he calls with the J high flush. This really frustrated me because two hands later I see him call someone's all-in with middle pair. You see my point? I'm now wondering if he would of called me if I put him all-in?

another hand that has me pissed off is when I was in BB with KK. It was folded to SB who raised to $6. I then raised to $12. and he folded. I'm not sure why I re-raised him. I wish I would of just called, and then seen flop and try to take advantage of him there. He was very maniacal player, and I should'nt of re-raised him there.

Another hand. Im in SB and I flop a open ender straight draw against 2 opponents. I bet $6 after flop and get called by both. turn was no help, I still bet out $6, and both called. River gave me nut straight, this time I bet out $15, one folded and ther other guy called with top pair. Again I'm wondering would he have called more money???

I know I should not be frustrated by these type of things, because at least I'm making money. But it is frustating to watch these guys go all-in with lesser hands and get called. I'm just scared that they will fold if I bet out too strong, especially on scarey boards. But obvioulsy last night these guys were maniacs and calling stations. anyone have any tips or advice on these type of situations? or am i frustrated about nothing? thanks for any input.

[bonanz]

sounds like you're not paying attention to the players at the table. extracting the most money out of people when you have the nuts is all situational. spend more time figuring out your opponents and getting decent reads. All of your posts mention you have no read on any of the people at your table even after an hour at the table.

bonanz

[pokerraja]

It's very hard to have an exact read on a table especially online. For the most part I did know that they were calling stations, manical, etc... One player at the table I did respect as tight aggresive. There was alot of preflop raising, thats why I raised my KK hand against the SB. To tell you the truth, I think my table image was that of a Tight aggresive player and many players did not want to tangle with me. I probably should have mixed my play up a bit more. Maybe show down with some weaker hands just to throw them off. But i did not want to mess around, as their was money to be made. I'm just trying to get as much out of them as I think I can. Another example, when I had the nut flush hand and I checke to my opponent on river, I was hoping he would put me all-in, instead he bets out $15. Now If I put him all-in for his $75 will he call me with a jack high flush? So instead I Just double it and bet out $30, he just called me. I think my table image was tough, and maybe he figured me for a higher flush. thanks for your suggestion, but im not sure how much more of a read I can have.

[Nero]

Your over-thinking this. You flopped the nut-flush against calling stations and then bet $4 and $6, why? bet around the pot on the flop, pot on turn, and your river c/r gets his whole stack. big hands want to play big pots and you cant expect them to bet your hand for you on a monotone board.

[fsuplayer]

I was going to say the same thing. When in doubt about how much to bet on a certain monster hand, the size of the pot is always a good number to start with. I try to bet the pot on most good hands.

The only time I dont bet the pot is when I have a great hand, and for whatever reason, (say the pattern of betting), I dont think he will call a pot sized river bet, then I might value bet for the most I think I can get from him.

When deciding on the number, I have found it is better to err towards a strong, larger bet.

I used to try and get cute and "bait" them along, but at the end of the hand at the showdown, I usually see a hand which would have called much bigger bets the whole way.

Now I just bet and if they call, great, but if they dont, it is most likely not due to the size of your bet, but the quality of their hand.

Party has lots of bad players, but some are bad because they call too much, not bc they are wild and crazy. My point is that sometimes I will see a hand like two pair, TPTK, or even lower flushes call me on the end when they definately should have raised....this means that they would have called a much larger bet on each street if I had bet bigger.

Lastly, the more you charge draws on every single hand, the more your profit per hour will go up...because they almost always call /images/graemlins/grin.gif!

FsuPlayer

[pokerraja]

thanks for the responses. someone mentioned im thinking too much, yea your right, thats what a slump will do to you! One thing I'm trying to do is to be less tricky. So many times my tricks backfire on me. I've learned many times its better to come out betting instead of checking and hoping your opponent bets. All I can do is get my money out there and hope I get called when I'm holding the nuts.

[fsuplayer]

Exactly!!
I am in a bad stretch right now and it sucks, hopefully it will be done soon!

Good Luck!
FsuPlayer

[Yardbird]

In my experience, its better to overbet than underbet in situations such as you describe (kind of like the maxim about putting in golf)... They're calling stations, if they don't call your all-in, they probably wouldn't have called a min-raise either. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif Even against slightly better opponents---the kind I describe as "just good enough to be a hazzard to themselves and others"---a larger bet than might be warranted just looks proportionately more like a bluff than a slow-play, and less scary to them. /images/graemlins/grin.gif It's at those times that it seems like a waste of ammunition if you could just as easily reach into the barrel and grab them without pulling the trigger on your six-gun. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Richie Rich]

Haven't read everyone else's posts, but MY secret to extracting money from calling stations is to TRAP them... (1) when you've made a boat, hope they are on a flush/straight draw and they make it by the river, (2) bet your TPTK strong and know that they'll call you down with the second best hand...sure they may catch two pair by the river, but the chances are few and far between, (3) be sure to charge them to chase you down...give them ineffective odds when you feel they're on a flush/straight draw. In short, charge them MORE.

However, if they read you as being tight, then don't expect them to call your all-in like they might to another player. Those players (whose all-ins the calling stations are calling) are typically loose/maniacs who the stations "don't believe". So be it.

[rtucker5]

[ QUOTE ]
This was a terrible table. maybe one of the worst that I have ever seen. They would call with any piece of the flop, they would call thier red pocket jacks when there are four club cards on the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is the worst table you've ever seen you have a lot to learn.

These tables are the best because you know you will get action when you have a strong hand. Would you rather have them all fold bottom pair?

I'm not trying to be mean, but this table sounds very profitable.

[GuitarMarc]

I think he actually meant the play at the table was the worst thus making it fantastic for a good player.