Well, it seemed like a good idea...

[Gar Pike]

So, one of my rare (so far) forays into the $20 Party SNG circuit.

1st hand I'm UTG with 22

I limp 5 others limp and BB bets 425

This just seemed like a steal, to me. It wasn't all-in, it wasn't a "standard 3Xbb raise", either of which I'd have folded, it wasn't a min raise, which I probably would have called, so, in the interest of playing to win, I re-raised all-in.

I thought a limp/all-in re-raise would represent a very good hand, and if he was stealing, he would fold.

Alas, he did not...

Results: <font color="white"> he called and turned over 8 5 of hearts, my deuces held up
I did a quick twodimes.net analysis, it turns out I was a 1% dog.

I felt pretty silly at first, but looking back it was +EV.

I think.

I went on to win.
</font>


Your thoughts?

Regards,

Gar

[Profit]

well, there is no way i am making this move on the very first hand of the tourney. IMO, you had to assume that he would call your all-in bet. Half of his stack is already gone, i doubt someone who plays like this on the first hand is going to give it up, especially vs someone who just limps in under the gun, if u raised originally and then u come back over his raise, it may be different.

Regardless, it worked out for you, u accurately guessed that he was bluffing. Personally with 22 i really don't care if he flipped up his 5 8 suited before it's my turn to act, i'm folding here simply because i'm not going to take a gamble like this on hand one.

THat's just me though /images/graemlins/smile.gif, congrats onthe win.

[berya]

Bad call with 22 UTG, terrible all-in. Sometimes I put something in the notes. For you I would put down BIG FISH.

Sorry you asked for thoughts.

[Pitcher]

Uh Gar,

I hate to say this Gar, but that is beyond horrible. If I were playing your limit, I would use whatever facility the site had to try and find you so I could join tourneys you join.

You did ask.

Now, take advantage of the fact that you are here and posting on 2+2, and as quick as you can, read the SNG strategy on this forum and start playing very similar to it. Here is the link:

Link to SNG Strategy (http://www.sitandgostrategy.com./beating_low_limit_sng.html)

Once you have played using this stategy, you can add additional plays....but this must be your baseline.

Pitcher

[DarkKnight]

Steal or not you're less than 50-50 and he's pretty much pot commited. Bad move.

DK

[Gar Pike]

No, berya, it's OK

I usually play a lot closer to AM's recipe for winning, I don't know what came over me. Some form of tilt, no doubt. I wanted to see a cheap flop with my deuces and here it was around to the last guy, who had the gall to try a steal raise from the BB with a hand I would have been happy to limp in with 6 callers. I "knew" it was a steal, thought it was a good opportunity to get headsup with position with an all-in raise, and I was right.

This time.

I agree it was a "bad" (some have said "horrible", I won't disagree) play, it's one I won't be making for the next 23, 162 hands. I would argue that deviating form "proper" play sometimes has the advantage of making it hard, if not impossible, to read me. In this case i was practically 50-50 to win, I think the deciding factor was a moment of insanity.

I did shock myself back towards some semblance of "proper" play, I folded the next 3 orbits, and the next hand I played was a pair of Qs, Which I raised to 150 from the CO, got 2 callers, and folded when the flop was A 8 3 suited and had a bet and a raise to me. Winner had ATs, and outkicked the initial bettor.

I would be happy to have you list me as a BIG FISH based on this one play, but I think you'd be wrong.

Well, on second thought. Gar and Pike are both BIG fish, who prey on smaller fish.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re Gar ds

Gar

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]

1st hand I'm UTG with 22.

I limp 5 others limp and BB bets 425 ... I re-raised all-in.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is terrible, as others pointed out and you admit, but I haven't seen enough reasons given. Here are a few points to think about.

/images/graemlins/frown.gif Don't try to bluff a maniac. Really, estimate the probability the BB would fold after betting 425. Even if you announced that you have AA, it would be close to correct for the BB to call with an underpair, and not much of a mistake to call with complete garbage. Maniacs are not known for making good lay-downs involving subtle reasoning.

/images/graemlins/frown.gif In general, be prepared to sacrifice some chips to stay in the game. Just because a play gains expected chips does not mean it gains expected prize money. The option to move in on a coin-toss with 70 chips thrown in may well be -EV.

/images/graemlins/frown.gif There were 5 limpers to act after you. You were exposing yourself not only to the danger that the BB had a higher pocket pair, but also that a good limper has JJ, QQ, KK, or AA, will correctly read you both as maniacs, and will call. Position matters even if you are moving all-in.

/images/graemlins/frown.gif You think 22 is good because it is mediocre against two overcards. It is worse than mediocre in a multi-way all-in against 85s and AKs, EV .264 (http://twodimes.net/h/?z=294441), not to mention how poorly it fares against any higher pair. Your best hopes are that someone with a 2 calls your all-in, or that the people who call have overlapping hands, e.g., two players with AK. (Four players with AK would be fantastic--dream on.) Otherwise, you will not be happy to see any calls, and there will be at least one call.

/images/graemlins/frown.gif By knocking yourself or the (other?) maniac out in the first hand, you won't get to pick up the maniac's chips for several hands, if not orbits. Folding a few times to overbets will encourage the maniac to bully everyone, at which point it will be safer to call with almost any decent hand if you are last to act. 22 does not qualify as a decent hand. You are in a good seat with a maniac on your right; you gave that advantage up by moving in.

/images/graemlins/frown.gif What you would like to see is some limpers call the maniac, then have everybody move in later, so that you are close to the money after the first hand even though you sat out. By raising, you eliminate that plausible, favorable scenario.

In summary, pushing was bad. It may have been better than a call, but folding was right by a lot.

[Gar Pike]

" What you would like to see is some limpers call the maniac, then have everybody move in later, so that you are close to the money after the first hand even though you sat out. By raising, you eliminate that plausible, favorable scenario." "Folding a few times to overbets will encourage the maniac to bully everyone, at which point it will be safer to call with almost any decent hand if you are last to act"

This is good. If I'm understanding you correctly, I could have used this guy's propensity to bully people by letting him collect chips, and having position on him to take them away later with better hands.

Thank you. This is something that didn't even cross my mind. I'm glad you posted.