Raising JJ-99 preflop

[joker122]

Does anyone have a link to a post explaining the value and the thinking behind raising JJ-99 preflop? If you have any thoughts of your own on this matter please, feel free...

[Bob T.]

I would usually raise these hands if I thought that I could limit my opponents to two, or if it was likely that six or more were going to play. Or if I was in the CO, and the button was a reasonable player.

You have a good hand. It can't be wrong to raise, you might win. After you raise, then subsequent actions by your opponents are easier to interpret, and you might be able to save bets on the big bet streets.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[Dynasty]

Why do you need more of a reason than "You have the best hand"?

[harboral]

I think raising is very good with these three PP's. First, you get more money in the pot with what is probably the best hand. Second, you get some of the Ax and Kx hands out that won't call a double bet. And third, you often get credit for any big card that hits the flop if you continue to lead. As a bonus, if you do get a couple callers with an ace or a king and you are on 99 and a 9 flops, they usually will give you good play. AL

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]

Why do you need more of a reason than "You have the best hand"?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've just always have trouble playing these hand when an overcards flops, which is more often than not. At low limits a raise will put me in a situation with 3 or 4 opponents and thier combine overcard outs make me an underdog to the feild. I realize that I'm getting my money in with what is very likely the best hand, and when the cold call they are loosing money in the long run. But only one of them needs to hit for me to lose. Whenever a post came up about whether or not to raise JJ pf I'd always be the first one to respond vehemently that a raise is the only play, as JJ figures to be the best hand. But now I fail to see the value in a raise.

I'm not stubborn nor am I convinced either way, so I'd appreciate some input from more expereinced players on this forum (which is about everyone) if they are so inclined.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Here we go into the JJ thing again...

Well, put it this way. You'd raise AK preflop right? You'll make TPTK like only 33 percent of the time. I dont' know the exact numbers but that would mean that JJ ITSELF would be an overpair like 50 percent of the time.

Oh yea, and that JJ is the frigging 4th best hand in hold'em.

[brian0729]

Does anyone have a link to a post explaining the value and the thinking behind raising JJ-99 preflop?

This gets my vote for funniest line of the year so far. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Do a search, this horse has been beaten lots of times Joker

[Bob T.]

You should be sure to find the infamous, 'JJ in the small blind' thread also.

[Homer]

Why do you need more of a reason than "You have the best hand"?

Three players limp to you on the button with 77. You likely have the best hand. Do you raise?

I think he needs more of an explanation than "you have the best hand", though I am certainly not the person to give it, so hopefully someone will help him out.

-- Homer

[joker122]

...that there have been numerous debates about JJ on this forum, I was just wondering if anyone had a link to an especially educational one.

Also, JJ isn't as much as a problem for me. How do you all feel about TT and 99?

[John Deere]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, JJ isn't as much as a problem for me. How do you all feel about TT and 99?

[/ QUOTE ]

According to my friend, TT is the best hand in poker because, "seriously, it flops trips like two thirds of the time."

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
According to my friend, TT is the best hand in poker because, "seriously, it flops trips like two thirds of the time."

[/ QUOTE ]

I must be doing something wrong. What's his secret?

[Bob T.]

I must be doing something wrong. What's his secret?

Try this, say,

I am a lucky player, a powerful winning force surrounds me.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
I must be doing something wrong. What's his secret?

Try this, say,

I am a lucky player, a powerful winning force surrounds me.

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahahahahahahahahaha

hellmuth is a funny guy

[Bob T.]

Wrong! That was Caro.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you need more of a reason than "You have the best hand"?

Three players limp to you on the button with 77. You likely have the best hand. Do you raise?

I think he needs more of an explanation than "you have the best hand", though I am certainly not the person to give it, so hopefully someone will help him out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is true in terms of equity. In a 6 handed pot, all these hands are "better" than 77.
AA
KK
QQ
AKs
AQs
JJ
KQs
AJs
KJs
ATs
AKo
TT
QJs
KTs
QTs
JTs
99
AQo
A9s
KQo
T9s
A8s
K9s
J9s
A5s
Q9s
88
AJo
A7s
A4s
A6s
A3s
KJo
QJo


I understand that you are bothered a bit by the one-liners. But there's a lot to be said for them. The only reason to not raise with the "best" hand preflop is because you can gain it back post-flop. The worse you are post-flop, the greater the need to raise pre-flop. As a result, raising because you have the best hand is a painfully simple, yet incredibly accurate concept for a beginning player.

[sthief09]

I thought that was on the WPT where Hellmuth was meditating outside his house. I knew I heard that somewhere... I must've heard it on Caro's audio lessons that poker school had.

/images/graemlins/confused.gif you win Bob