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teemu_69
05-03-2004, 03:53 PM
Hi everyone, this is my first post in this forum so if any of the formatting or wording is odd please cut me some slack. About two weeks ago I started playing in a $1/$2 NL ring game at an apartment near me. They rake $1 for every $15 in the pot up to $4 max. About half the players are clearly better than me but by playing tight I turned a profit last time I came so I thought I'd return again. Here's the hand that I obviously screwed up:

I have $344 and am currently in MP in a 11 person game.

PRE FLOP: I am dealt 77.
-I figure I'll see the flop and if I don't hit anything I'll fold.
-I don't remember the exact poisition of all the players who called, but there were two limpers before me, I checked, one limper after, the SB calls, BB checks. $10 in the pot.

FLOP: 3-3-3
-I think to myself: "If there is any bet I'm folding, I don't want to run into a pair higher than mine or someone playing a three..."
-Three checks before me, I check, checks good behind me.

TURN: 7 (board - 333/7)
-I think to myself: "There is one card in the deck that is beating me now, and none of these jokers has it. I'll bet at it now and either get a caller from an overpair or win it right here..."
-Three check to me, I bet $10 (the pot), fold behind me, SB calls, everyone else folds. ***The SB has consistently played the tightest pre-flop of anyone at the table. I also think he is better than me, but I also can't imagine him playing any type of 3 given what I've seen so far.***

RIVER: Q (Board - 333/7/Q)
-I think for a second "he has the 3 and I should check if he gives me the chance" but I convince myself that he is so tight he couldn't have the 3, could he? I put him on a pp higher than 77 but lower than QQ-AA because I think he would have raised already if that were the case
-SB checks, I bet $30 (pot again), he asks me to count my stack which I do and he raises $50.
-I think "he wanted me count my stack as a read as to how strong my hand is, people at this game have done this to me before and have acted as if they knew my hand, so I'm guessing that this is a similar maneuver which further pushed me to think he doesn't have the 3."
-I think about the $50 raise for a little then say "I put him all i--- oh wait is that wad of money good?" (he had a large wad of cash which I hadn't noticed. He only had about $80 in chips left at this point which I was ready to make him play with, but when I noticed the wad I hesitated, I was told it was good and not to worry about almost raising more than I thought I could) I raise $50 more.
-***At this point he proceeds to count his money, rub his forehead, sigh some, all the tells that = MONSTER. I think he knows that I know this and is giving me an act. He's too good a player to really be giving off the tells I tihnk he is, and I tihnk he pegs me as a player good enough to read them as MONSTER and then fold if he reraises.***
-He reraises me all in ($202 more), I think for a second to myself: Would he have played 3x from the small blind? No. Would he have played QQ like he did? No. What does he have? 88-JJ. Am I winning? Yes. So I call. He shows me 35o. I go home losing all my money.

So yeah. I have some ideas about this hand and have spent many hours thinking about it and how I could have played it better. I was wondering what you thought my bet plays could have been throughout the hand? Please offer any critisim or advice I'll appreciate any input.

Thanks,
Greg

radioheadfan
05-03-2004, 04:31 PM
Wow. You played it fine until the river. When your $30 bet got raised to $50 your options are clear. Call it or fold. Thats it. If you raise you will only get called by a better hand, 3x or QQ so there's no point. So you trapped yourself. The $30 bet was good since you wanted to be called by a big pocket pair, AA, KK, or whatever. The raise screams quads - I would have called it just to see it. Raising is horrible as it allows him the option of reraising and putting you to a decision for all your chips. Also, when the SB limps he could have anything, so 3x is not out of the question. And he played his flopped quads like most good players would, slow until the river. Don't trap yourself in the future. Maybe the best option was to just check behind him on the river - then you avoid the whole tricky situation. When he called your bet on the turn I would assume quads, nothing much else you can call with there. You have the 7s, and he didn't raise preflop - so big pocket pairs are unlikely. Best play is to check behind on the river - or make a small value bet, like you did - after the raise comes in the situation gets very tricky - best to avoid situations like that altogether.

schwza
05-03-2004, 04:54 PM
First off, I'd say you might want to consider finding a different game. If you can tell that "about half the players are clearly better than me" it can turn out to be an expensive night. I recommend getting some more practice in online at the lower stakes. On to the hand...

Pre-flop: fine.
Flop: I definitely bet this. You're very likely ahead right now, but very vulnerable to overcards.
Turn: Given that you didn't bet the flop, I would check here. Overcards are no longer an issue. If you bet here then few hands besides big pocket pairs and 3x will call, and we probably would have heard from a hand like 99-QQ already. Checking gives someone the chance to bluff (which you could call or raise), and it also gives someone a chance to make a worse hand (if they hold QJ and a Q falls on the river, for instance). And finally, if someone holds the dreaded 3, you lose less.

River: you put him on 88-JJ, which I wouldn't. The reason is that with those hands, he would likely fear that you held something like KQ, were semi-bluffing all the way and caught. He wouldn't want to give you the chance to put in another raise. And he wouldn't put you all-in because you'd probably call with hands better than his and fold worse hands. I would put him on AA or KK when he moves in. (Of course, it's the same result, but those would have my thoughts before I lost all my money).

I'm most curious what people think about 3-betting the river. I think I would 3-bet it as did the poster (but for more like 125 instead of 50).

teemu_69
05-03-2004, 05:46 PM
yeah I know about finding a new game. I haven't been back there since that night. I was consistently making money at the other games I play and I realized soon after that night that my biggest mistake was going there at all.

Thanks for the advice so far guys, it really helps a lot to hear what others have to say.