I keep making these mistakes on the river !

Hi guys,

I am not sure whether betting in this situation is a mistake or not but i have done it twice lately and i keep getting checkraised and i pay the guy off. I could have checked and taken the free showdown, but i have this thing in my mind about always value betting. Help please !

4-8 Holdem I have AK, UTG has been playing pretty tight for the last 15 min (new players) raises. One person calls, I call in MP with AK offsuit, 1 more caller behind me. FLOP 410K with rainbow, UTG check, limper checks i bet, a player behind me calls now UTG raises, folded to me. I am thinking now KK, AK, AA but i wanna be sure so i reraise well both call. Turn is an Ace. Giving me two pair, now if he has it he will tell me on the turn, UTG checks, i bet, the guy behind me folds and UTG only calls. huh??

River is a Jack, making a backdoor flush draw and any Queen for a straight. He checks, i pause for a while seemed like a long time and bet he checkraises me i know its over but i make a crying call he flashes QQ and i am disguisted with myself for betting the river.

QUESTION: What is the probability that you would bet the river in this situation and how likely is it that you will pay him off on the river after the checkraise, do you ever fold?

Should i have just checked and saved myself two hours worth of work or what? LMAO i am getting obsessed with this BB per hour crap so every session i have at max 1-2 mistakes post flop, and this one is very frequent. What do you think of his play?

Long post but if you've gotton this far, I thank you.


Take Care,

-MJ

You shouldn't bet the river here. One of the key reasons is that you don't want to call a checkraise. Your "value bet" is much to thin with a 4-straight and 3-flush on the board. If there were just a 3-straight and 3-flush, I think you can bet every time in a heads-up pot.


Another issue:


UTG...raises. I call in MP with AK offsuit


If you are routinely cold-calling pre-flop raises, then you are making substantial errors. You should so rarely cold call raises that it should be difficult to remember the last time you did it.


The best way to play AKo here is to 3-bet with it.

Given the way this hand has been played, it is fairly obvious that you have a good hand. Thus when you bet on the river with a four straight out there, it will be tough for a weaker hand to call. So, if you are against someone who you think could also check raise, there is very little reason to bet.


MM

You shouldn't Call his River CheckRaise.


At this Limit,if you do not have the nuts, you will never win when

CheckRaised on the River.

First, I don't think its a mistake to 3bet preflop with AK.


Second, I'd be a little hesitant to bet the river given the board and the fact that the only possible hand you can beat is AJ. If UTG raised with AA, KK, AK, AQ, QQ, JJ, TT, you are beaten or tied. You might conceivably get another AK to lay down, but that's about it (and given the betting, it seems unlikely that that is the hand out against you).


I guess the question is what worse hand you expected to call you and what better hand you expected to fold. Because those are the two reasons to bet the river, and I don't see either one of them here.

but i have this thing in my mind about always value betting


A lot of players go through this in their development. You start off always checking behind on the river just to see the showdown. Eventually, you get sick of playing this weak-tight style, but you overcompensate by making razor thin bets at inopportune moments. Remember: don't always do anything in poker.


You bet for value when you feel your opponent will call with a worse hand, or fold a better hand. No set or straight is folding here. So if you truly felt you were betting for value in this scenario, the only worse hand your opponent could conceivably call with here, given the way this played out, is KT for the flopped top two. But if UTG has been playing tight, as you say, you'd have to literally will those cards into his hand because he's not playing them on his own. Unless you're a licensed spoonbender, don't do this.


Don't let situations like this cause you to clam up and go back to habitually checking behind on the river. Just make sure in the future that you really are betting for value, and not just betting because checking seems weak.