paying like an ATM? turn decision struggle

[tpir90036]

sometimes i feel like my efforts to not be weak-tight turn me into a passive player who pays off too much. here is an example of a turn decision i struggle with:

party 2/4. my opponent in this hand was aggressive, a little loose with his cold-calling and overplayed his pocket pairs.

anyway, two folds to me and i raise with K /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif. folded to the cutoff who 3-bets. both blinds fold. i call.

flop: (7.5 SB) K /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
i check. CO bets. i check-raise. CO 3-bets. i call.

turn (6.75 BB) 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (K /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif)
i check. CO bets. i ????

i feel that folding top pair against an aggressive opponent is dumb...yet, i also think that calling down is dumb since i do not know if the 8.75:2 i am getting on a call-down is a good price....where is the poker middle ground?

results later.

[Rico Suave]

Hey trip:

Since you say he takes his pocket pairs too far, i think you should call this one down.

Since it was heads up, I would have played this one more passively and check called all the way down ( although I might lead on the river).

--Rico

[pheasant tail (no 18)]

The middle ground is calling down 50% and folding 50%, but that's not the impotant question. Your 1st line contains the answer to your question. You say that you are turning passive. The counter to that is obviously aggression. You had good cards and a good flop--be aggressive.

If opponent is often overaggressive, why the check raise on flop. You should probably bet out then maybe 3-bet him. Sounds like he'd 3-bet PF w/ a lot of hands that you beat. He problably wont 4 bet on the flop w/ many that you can beat. He very well might read you for weak tight or passive.

Heads up, you cannot lose that many chips since he is the only one who can raise you and I think it is important for aggressive players to know it will cost chips to do battle. They usually remember the ones that play back, especially the tight ones.

Even if he shows you KK AK or AA and wins, he'll know that he cannot push you around so easily. If you bet out on the turn after three betting the flop, you will not get raised again by a worse hand unless he is a maniac or reads you as a folder. This also applies if you were 4-bet on the flop and called.

If he raises you on the turn, then the decision comes. As you played it, you put yourself to difficult decisions in the wrong place.

You picked a good spot to go to battle w/ this guy, got it heads up and got a decent flop. You will lose some chips sometimes, but this is a good situation for you to be in against overaggressive players. Put some money in the pot and make him decide.

PT

[PokerBob]

What could he have that beats you? AK, AA and KK are most likely, and then there is nothing you can do. Sometimes you run into walls. If he has 99 or 88 then good for him. Call this down at the very least, unless a major scare card (like an Ace) hits the river.

[Nate tha' Great]

The middle ground against this sort of opponent might be check-calling the flop, check-calling the turn, and either betting out or check-calling on the river depending on board texture. That line tends to minimize the number of bets that you lose when you're behind, and maximize the number of bets that you make when you're behind.

Calling is bad if you call because you can't decide between raising and folding. It isn't bad if it's part of a plan.

The way that you played it, the calldown here is very easy.

[Trix]

I would count on the guy to bet my hand for me when I´m ahead, so I check-call all the way unimproved.
My guess it that you are either far ahead or far behind, so you dont need to protect your hand.

[MaxPower]

Given what you say about this player, you could just check-call all the way and make a tidy little profit against him. Calling down is not dumb when it will make you the most money.

[tpir90036]

i decided to call down thinking that while he might play QQ the same way that i was probably beat since i think the check-raise would have slowed him down if he had an under pair.

anyway, he showed AK and i felt like a moron....i realize that is results-oriented thinking but i seem to struggle with these decisions often enough that i think it might be a major leak in my game.

thanks for the responses...

[AceHigh]

I think SOP for this situation is check/call, check/call, bet the river.

It's unlikely you will get raised by a hand like AK on the river because you could easily have stumbled into a 2 pair hand somewhere and hands like JJ and QQ will often pay you off.

[Trix]

So you fold if he raise the river ?

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling is bad if you call because you can't decide between raising and folding. It isn't bad if it's part of a plan.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the nugget of wisdom i was looking for. i am going to write this on the back of my tom mcevoy starting hand chart /images/graemlins/wink.gif