5/10 QQ small blind multi-way action, big pot

[Miah]

I have Qh Qc in the sb.

MP1 open limps
MP2 limps
cutoff limps
button raises to $10
I raise to $15
BB folds
everyone else except the cutoff call

$70 in the pot

Flop:

J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I check
MP1 bets
MP2 calls
Button Raises to $10
I 3 bet $15
MP1 calls
MP2 folds
Button caps it, we all call

$135 in the pot

Turn:

J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif)

I check, MP checks, button bets, we both call (I should have raised or bet out).

$165 in the pot

River:

J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif (7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif)

I check, it gets checked around

[Miah]

button had K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif
MP had K /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[Bob T.]

I think you were in a tough spot. You were out of position, and you lost the initiative to the flop cap. Knowing the results, or the river action make me want to go back and checkraise the turn, but I think facing the action that I had seen so far, I would probably be in check/call mode.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[manpower]

I think I agree about betting the turn [Edit: I'm quite sure I'd be in check call mode]. You can probably discount aces and kings because of no cap pf. Although a set or jacks or eights isn't impossible. btw, you wouldn't happen to be an Arsian as well would you? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Miah]

Yep, been on ars since Dec 99

[lunchmeat]

After checking the flop, I would have called down also... but why did you check the flop? For me, betting this flop is about as automatic as it gets. The last thing you want is for the flop to get checked around and give everybody a free card. Also, the pot is big so a slowplay isn't really necessary, and if you do pop them for a turn check/raise it will be pretty obvious to a good player what you're up to.

The only pros to this move that I can see are that a check/raise will get more money in the pot if someone to your left bets, or you can decrease the odds of drawing hands by check/raising if someone on your right bets.

Not trying to flame you here, I'm just interested in hearing the rational behind checking the flop in this situation.

[elitegimp]

[ QUOTE ]
Yep, been on ars since Dec 99

[/ QUOTE ]

in case you don't know, you are the one responsible for getting me to sign up here (from ars). Thanks! Oh, and I'm mostly in the micro-limit forum /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[asdf1234]

I think I'd bet the flop. You put in the last bet preflop and your hand is really vulnerable and there are a lot of free cards that hurt you. I also think I'd bet the turn, and call down if raised.

[Miah]

[ QUOTE ]
After checking the flop, I would have called down also... but why did you check the flop? For me, betting this flop is about as automatic as it gets. The last thing you want is for the flop to get checked around and give everybody a free card. Also, the pot is big so a slowplay isn't really necessary, and if you do pop them for a turn check/raise it will be pretty obvious to a good player what you're up to.

The only pros to this move that I can see are that a check/raise will get more money in the pot if someone to your left bets, or you can decrease the odds of drawing hands by check/raising if someone on your right bets.


[/ QUOTE ]

I was fairly sure I would get a bet from LP allowing me to get a raise in there. If I bet out on the flop, everyone is getting an immediate 14-1 on a call, so I'd rather cut that down in half by raising. Of course it would be better to C/R on the turn but that seemed to risky and probably wouldn't be worth taking the chance of it checked around on the turn being my hand is so vulnerable.

Looking back, I should have bet out on the turn. As for disguising my hand from a good player, I really don't care as the pot is so big at this point I just want people to fold. I could turn my hand face up and there would be hands that would correctly not fold given the size of the pot.