$20-$40 at the Taj - Terrible Laydown?

[UMTerp]

OK, I HATE the way I played this hand. Lemme have it.

Absolutely great game at the Taj this weekend - a typical hand saw 5-6 people seeing the flop for 2 or 3 bets. A few of the worst players I'd ever seen at these limits in the game for a while, though this hand didn't involve them.

I'm in the big blind with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif. Solid straightforward player openraises from middle position. LAG (played way too many hands, but was good enough postflop that he still appeared to be a winning player) made it three bets from MP2, it's folded around to me and I called (Mistake #1?).

Flop A /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. OK, I got away with one. I bet, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif (A /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif). I lead out again, MP1 raises, MP2 makes it three bets, I fold. This is terrible, right?

If MP2 had more rigid opening stantdards, I'd have capped, but it was not uncommom at all for him to play 45s, A4s, etc., even for three bets (and yes, he'd raise with hands like that frequently). I didn't want to become a callling station for $160 or so.

All comments appreciated.

[DcifrThs]

terrible laydown? maybe...terrible PLAY, definately!

somewhere you're descriptions are dead wrong. the guy who opens for a raise you say he's "solid". then later on you say he'd likely have a 4 here. solid players don't open raise in that spot with A4s given your description of the game...hed either want more people ahead or fewer people behind, but not in that spot. THEN you say you just call. if the guy is solid and is 3 bet by a LAG yes you should call. but if he opens with 54s, you should cap preflop.

given the action, your flop bet is attrocious. there is NO WAY they are checking this through on the flop. check and then raise and bet out the turn.

given the action why would the LAG now just call?? what about MP1? why is the call on the flop an auto flag for a 4? in my book i bet out the turn and cap. i think its possible for ANY ace to think its a split and for AK to go farther than he should b/c he's got the "splitter" outkicked.

you layed down the likely winner and i would have capped the turn or capped preflop. somewhere your read was wrong or i misread or misunderstood.

please elaborate.
-Barron

[UMTerp]

"somewhere you're descriptions are dead wrong. the guy who opens for a raise you say he's "solid". then later on you say he'd likely have a 4 here. solid players don't open raise in that spot with A4s given your description of the game...hed either want more people ahead or fewer people behind, but not in that spot. THEN you say you just call. if the guy is solid and is 3 bet by a LAG yes you should call. but if he opens with 54s, you should cap preflop."

I think you misunderstood my descriptions. MP1 was the one I called "solid and straightforward". MP2 was very loose preflop, but quite tricky postflop, and he was the one I said could easily have a 4.

I agree that a check-raise on the flop and lead the turn would have been the more effective play.

Given the fact that I was at this point though, would most of you have capped the turn? I think a call would have been better than a cap, as I'd have wanted MP1 to come along with AK, and he might not have for 2 more bets.

[UMTerp]

And for what it's worth, I was going to 3-bet the flop.

[Ezcheeze]

Check raise the flop.
On the turn It seems very likely you are beat. The straightforward player would have raised the flop with AK and probably AQ. He might just call the flop with QQ though and then riase the turn. AA is unlikely since he didn't cap preflop. So it looks like the solid player either has you beat with QQ or is tied with you with AQ. Now the MP2 3 bets and if he really is good postflop it looks like your best case scenario is that you are splitting 3 ways. Given the unlikelyhood that you are in a 3 way split and that you don't have odds to draw out if you are beat (best case scenario if somehow all your outs were clean you are only getting 6 to 1 but need something around 11 to 1 and it may be capped behind you by the solid player) I think it was a good laydown.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
in my book i bet out the turn and cap.

[/ QUOTE ]

capping in a loose aggressive game when board pairs with top-two on the turn is probably wrong. however betting out isn't.

Kenny

[UMTerp]

MP1 folded behind me (WTF?), and MP2 took down the pot with his 3-bet on the turn.

My best guess for MP1 is KK, though he probably would've capped it preflop if that was the case. Maybe something like 88-JJ, though I'm not even sure that's worth a laydown to one extra bet.

I asked MP2 later on what he had, and he told me we'd have split the pot. He sounded like he was telling the truth.

Not check-raising the turn killed me there, because there's no way I'd have been facing $80 cold on the turn had I played it that way.