My first hand posting, an ordinary hand

Bernie has convinced me to put up some hands. I have many leaks, the worst of which is not changing reads as a hand continues. In this hand, I changed my read and got "lucky", but wonder if I was too aggressive early. Please help:


1/2 online game. I'm dealt Qc8d in the big blind. utg (loose passive) limps, utg +1 (no read) limps, small blind (tight and seems to enjoy being tricky) completes. 4 players take the flop.


Flop Qd Js 3d. I have top pair weak kicker. SB checks and I bet to see where I may be. UTG calls, UTG +1 calls, SB check raises. I thought it was more likely that SB was on a flush draw instead of two pair, so I reraised hoping to get others to fold. UTG calls two cold. UTG +1 folds. And SB just calls.


Turn 3s [Qd Js 3d]. SB checks. I bet out, again putting SB on diamonds. UTG calls, no idea what he may have. SB calls.


River 6s [3s Qd Js 3d]. SB bets?!?!? I now put him on Q3 or J3 even though he likely would have checkraised the turn with either of those holdings. I had been at the table for an hour, and seen several tricky plays from him and reasoned that he was hoping to extract one more bet. Either way, I thought I was beaten and folded.


Results to follow, help on all streets appreciated.

Board Qd Js 3d 3s 6s


SB bets, I fold, utg folds. SB shows Qs 7s for a flush.

Hello Hammuh, welcome to the posting fraternity.


I agree he may be pushing a flush, so I like the 3-bet on the flop. Unfortunately you didn't drop the UTG, so now you have to be a little wary. They may both be drawing or maybe he has a J.


I think you have to bet the turn, but if they're drawing they are calling anyway, and you could probably fold here to a check-raise.


The SB bet on the river is hard to place. Is he playing 66, Jd 6d. I don't see him with a 3, he would have raised the turn for sure (1/2 maybe not). You described him as tricky, maybe he's bluffing. I think you have to call with top pair.


I'll go read the results now.

Well read then. You raised when ahead and got out when behind. Runner runner flushes are difficult to read.

These are dangerous laydowns to make on the river, especially with a large pot and a tricky opponent. Many players at LL are familiar with the "when calling, bet" theory on the river. You should have called.

David,


Thanks for the compliment on the "good read". To me it was a "lucky read". At the same time, that was one of the points of the post--I've been playing for a year, and struggle so much with the issue of proper reads, and changing reads throughout the play of the hand. It's causing me to miss bets when ahead, and lose bets when losing and thinking I'm ahead. I'll post more hands over time to give an idea. Thanks for responding.

While I agree that the river is not the place to be making most of your laydowns, another thing that LL players tend to do (or think, rather) is "I can't take the chance it will get checked around on the river."


As you say, however, with a player who likes to be 'tricky', it's best to just call them if you have some kind of a hand.


Eric

tough hand to play here...


not sure how id have played the flop. he could be on a draw, but ive noticed many online tend to not bet their draws. though theyll push the hell out of a mid pair..haha i guess if your gonna call here, may as well raise and try to get UTG out. online, good luck...he'd call with a 3. haha


you did put the pressure on on the turn.


tough fold on the river. especially with the runner flush. since the UTG called, he may have had you beat also. i wouldve called, but you saved a bet by folding. so in that case...good fold. the most you wouldve done is split the pot if your hand did hold up. i think.


fun playin with ya the other day. hafta do it again sometime. /images/smile.gif


b

I'd be looking for a cheap showdown after 2 opponents put in 3 bets on the flop. You have a very weak hand. The nice thing is that when its checked to you on the turn, you can check and UTG will have to declare his intentions either by dropping the slowplay ruse or admitting his drawing status, and if he semi bluffs, you have the SB action to see before you have to decide.


I don't think you could convince me to put in more than one BB after the flop with your hand, and none if the flush completed. As it stands, you are inching towards putting in a pile of bets with a bad hand, and likely to walk away afterwards saying "stupid big blind!".


In this case, I think your river fold is correct, primarily because of this mysterious UTG who may be slowplaying while you and SB go to war all over the place.


If it was headsup, I'd be more inclined to agree with your turn bet.

Betting the flop is the right move, and re-raising the SB's check-raise is also a strong move, but you didn't follow through with the great play you set up. After the SB checked the turn, and you didn't improve, you should have checked behind. The UTG limper, who has been passively calling, will now either wake up and bet, which will give you a chance to see where you are, or will check behind, giving you a free play.

If the UTG bets, then the SB will either raise or fold, and you'll know where you stand. If SB raises, you fold, knowing you are likely beat. If SB just calls behind, you know are probably against 2 drawing hands (the UTG player might be betting hoping for a free show-down). And, if the SB folds, you call, and then decide your best play on the river.


With the amount of money in the pot, and that board, no one is going to fold your turn bet, and you can save the $. However, when the SB came out betting on the end, I think you should call; the UTG player likely only called because you folded; he probably folds if you call.