Raised on the turn.....Show this down?

[PokerBob]

Hero is UTG+1 with A /images/graemlins/club.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Hero raises. UTG+2 cold calls. CO (poster) calls. BB calls. 4 to flop of T /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB checks. Hero bets. UTG+2 calls. CO calls. BB folds.

Turn T /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero bets. UTG+2 raises. CO folds. Hero calls.

River A /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Hero checks. UTG+2 bets. Hero calls.

I would like input on calling the turn raise and the river bet. Thanks, PokerBob.

[Vehn]

You have to call the turn. Most of the time you will want to check fold the river if you miss though. I wouldn't call here unimproved.

[PokerBob]

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You have to call the turn. Most of the time you will want to check fold the river if you miss though. I wouldn't call here unimproved.

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In your opinion, did the river ace improve my hand enough to call?

[sthief09]

I personally wouldn't have played it any differently. It's possible he was semi-bluff raising a flush draw or raising a J on the turn, so I show it down.

EDIT: to answer your question (which wasn't directed at me), yes, the A improves your hand enough to call down against anyone but the most passive players who you know, for a fact, have trips or better.

[Vehn]

Unfortunatly yes - even though almost all of the time a river bet here from your opponent means your beat, you only need to win a small amount of the time to make money on it. In other words I would pay off here almost all the time especially online.

[Nate tha' Great]

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You have to call the turn. Most of the time you will want to check fold the river if you miss though. I wouldn't call here unimproved.

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In your opinion, did the river ace improve my hand enough to call?

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If you have a question about whether you should have called the river, then you shouldn't have called the turn. 8.5:1 (if I'm calculating right) is not sufficient odds for a gutshot alone.

[Vehn]

He has a double gutshot.

[PokerBob]

UTG+2 turned over 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gifT /images/graemlins/heart.gif for trip T's. He flopped open ended with middle pair and a backdoor flushdraw. Basically a monster drawing hand. However, IMO he is nuts for coldcalling 2 in this position (at least it is a call I would NEVER make pre-flop.) with unkown action behind him and the very real possibility that he will be heads up with the original raiser. Am I wrong to think this way?

[Lost Wages]

Am I wrong to think this way?

No, his preflop call was bad. You should be happy to be called by T9s when you raise with AQ.

Lost Wages

[Rico Suave]

Hey Pokerbob:

Does anyone check call the turn here? He has outs, so he has to call a raise. He is betting into 2 opponents who called his flop bet on a very drawy board, making it unlikely that our hero will take it down with a turn bet.

Anyone?

--Rico

[PokerBob]

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Hey Pokerbob:

Does anyone check call the turn here? He has outs, so he has to call a raise. He is betting into 2 opponents who called his flop bet on a very drawy board, making it unlikely that our hero will take it down with a turn bet.

Anyone?

--Rico

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I agree that a turn bet will probably not take it down, but why let them draw for free? If I think I am ahead, I bet. I think I would bet this turn 100% of the time. Maybe that is a leak in my game, but that's how I'd play it. I think a check here after being the aggressor preflop is weak-tight.

[Rico Suave]

Hey Pokerbob:

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I think a check here after being the aggressor preflop is weak-tight.

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I have been called worse /images/graemlins/grin.gif . Seriously though, just b/c you were the preflop aggressor does not mean you have to continue betting post flop.

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I agree that a turn bet will probably not take it down, but why let them draw for free? If I think I am ahead, I bet.

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I guess the crux of the problem is who actually needs the free card, you or them. If you think neither of your opponents has a J, T or an 8, then by all means bet because they need the free card more than you.

--Rico

[PokerBob]

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I guess the crux of the problem is who actually needs the free card, you or them. If you think neither of your opponents has a J, T or an 8, then by all means bet because they need the free card more than you.


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I agree completely. I didn't think I could put them on any of the 3 cards, as they would have to be moderately insane to call 2 bets cold pre-flop with hands that contained any of these cards (except for maybe TT or JJ or AJ) 88 or 99 is a possibility, but I don't think I should fear that, at least not until I am given reason to (i.e. a flop raise).

[Rico Suave]

Hey Pokerbob:

One last comment.

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I didn't think I could put them on any of the 3 cards, as they would have to be moderately insane to call 2 bets cold pre-flop with hands that contained any of these cards (except for maybe TT or JJ or AJ) 88 or 99 is a possibility

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I think you need to be careful here. Exactly what kind of hand would a moderately "sane" opponent hold that you have beaten on the turn.

--Rico

[PokerBob]

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Exactly what kind of hand would a moderately "sane" opponent hold that you have beaten on the turn.

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Excellent point. Thanks for the input.