55 flops bottom set, rivers an underboat

[bdk3clash]

Button plays loose but isn't generally super-aggressive and plays decently postflop.

EP1 is clueless, loose, and shortstacked.

In particular, I'm interested in my turn and river play.

How would you play this one?

Party Poker 1/2 (10 handed)
bdk3clash has 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif and is CO

UTG limps, EP1 limps, EP2 limps, bdk3clash limps, Button limps, SB limps, BB checks

Flop(7 SB): J/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif

SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, EP1 checks, EP2 checks, bdk3clash bets, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, EP1 calls, EP2 folds

Turn(5 BB): 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif

EP1 checks, bdk3clash bets, Button raises, EP1 3-bets, bdk3clash caps, Button calls, EP1 calls

River(17 BB): 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

EP1 checks, bdk3clash bets, Button raises, EP1 calls, EP1 is all-in, bdk3clash calls

[B Dids]

I'm capping that river. If he's going boat over boat on me, then good for him.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm capping that river. If he's going boat over boat on me, then good for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't like this response. What is your reasoning? What are you putting him on to justify 3-betting?

[bakku]

I like 3-betting the river here too with EP1 calling every bet and the chance that the button overplayed two pair

[bdk3clash]

To clarify, EP1 is all in on the river after calling 2 after the button raises, so the rest of the action I get will be heads up with the button.

(Apparently, this is a bug in Slavic's converter.)

[bakku]

I think I just call the river raise then. Btw, can you post the link to slavic's converter?

[bdk3clash]

Slavic's Hand History Converter (http://www.team-skilz.com/)

[JerseyTom]

Maybe Button is simply overplaying two pair (J6s? This would certainly be loose pre-flop...) and/or 3-betting in hopes of a free showdown. I cap this turn every time. I bet the river, call a raise, and am pleasantly surprised if I win.

EP... "can't put a man on a hand if you can't put him on a thought"

[B Dids]

Trip sixes. He's putting you on a king. I'm not saying I'm right, but that's what I would do. I'm interested in what other people have.

[bakku]

I don't think the button would raise the turn with just a 6

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
Trip sixes. He's putting you on a king. I'm not saying I'm right, but that's what I would do. I'm interested in what other people have.

[/ QUOTE ]

So your read is that the button limped preflop with 6X (where X is not a K, J, 5, or 6), called a bet on the flop with nothing, caught a pair of 6s on the turn, raised the turn with his second-bottom pair, and then called another 2 bets cold when I capped on the turn?

I find this scenario unlikely to be the case.

[sfer]

Certainly looks like the 6 helped the button. Looks fine.

You've got a nasty habit of turning/rivering smaller boats. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

EDIT: bdk, what's your river action when it's raised back to you if MP has enough to go 4 bets on the river?

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
Certainly looks like the 6 helped the button. Looks fine.

You've got a nasty habit of turning/rivering smaller boats. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Or, at least posting about them. /images/graemlins/grin.gif The ones where I take it down without resistance just aren't as interesting.

[ QUOTE ]
bdk, what's your river action when it's raised back to you if MP has enough to go 4 bets on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you mean EP1, not MP[/b]. If EP1 calls two cold, he'll certainly call another one (if I 3-bet and button calls) and will almost certainly call another two (if I 3-bet and button caps.)

So either way, if he has enough to call down, I'm getting 2:1 on my river action. My read on the button indicates that he has a boat here some percentage of the time. He'ds have to have a boat (all of which beat me) more than 2/3rds of the time to make raising -EV, assuming EP1 is along for the ride (and behind my 5s full.)

Obviously, a stronger case can be made for raising if EP1 isn't all-in. I had a pretty strong read for EP1 having two pair on the turn, either KJ ("slowplayed" on the flop) or K6/J6 on the turn (more likely.) Betting the river was my way of finding out, and once he raised, I thought him likely to have 6s full-- probably more than 2/3rds of the time. (Comments?)

In conclusion, I probably would have just called even if EP1 wasn't all-in, but I understand the case for re-raising. Excellent question, SFer.

The good thing about random players sticking around is that you have to be ahead less of the time to make raising correct. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Trix]

The turn play is good, they have a combination of KJ, K6 or J6.
I see many flatcall with top two pair on the flop if bettor is on their right.

I think you should check-call the river anyway as I´m pretty sure button will bet it for you when he is behind aswell and I dont think you are ahead often enough to check-raise him.
Hope that Button have KJ and EP has something weird. I dont think you will win it very often, but probably often enough.

[B Dids]

AGH- nevermind.

[sfer]

Hey Trix, I really don't like check calling the river. KJ will play the turn the same and I think assuming he has K6/J6/66 absent a river raise is weak-tight thinking. After the river raise I give him credit.

[Trix]

If EP can´t raise button enough to let him 3bet, then I like check-calling.
If he can, then betting is probably better as you are sure to see his hand for 2 bets and you can 3bet him if he calls and EP raise.


[ QUOTE ]
KJ will play the turn the same and I think assuming he has K6/J6/66 absent a river raise is weak-tight thinking

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think so. My guess is that he is behind to one of them atleast 80% of the time.