problems with cowboys

[dfscott]

The following are 2 KK hands where I wasn't happy with my play. I have some ideas about what I did wrong, but I like to get some other feedback.

Hand 1

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (5.20 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.20 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.20 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 7.20 BB, between MP2 and Hero.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by MP2 (7.20 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
MP2 shows 8c 9c (three of a kind, nines).
Hero shows Ks Kc (two pair, kings and nines).
Outcome: MP2 wins 7.20 BB. </font>

What I think I did wrong in white below: <font color="white">
Well, this is an obvious suck-out, but I think the 3rd heart scared me and I gave MP2 the chance to suck out. I think I should've bet the turn and folded if raised. Then check/call the river?
</font>

Hand 2

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, Button calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (7.70 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (10.70 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 13.70 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 13.70 BB, between Button, UTG and Hero.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by Button (13.70 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG shows Jd 5d (one pair, jacks).
Hero shows Kd Kh (one pair, kings).
Button shows Th Ac (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Button wins 13.70 BB. </font>

What I think I did wrong in white below: <font color="white">
Ok, I'm beaten when the ace falls on the flop, but I don't think I can get away from this hand that easy. Raising the turn would've been a possibility, but wouldn't have saved me any money. I'm at a loss on this one.
</font>

[cold_cash]

Hand 1 - I would bet the turn, fold to a raise. Check behind on the river if he calls.

Hand 2 - I'd like to be able to fold to the turn bet, and that's probably the right play most of the time. Easier said than done though.

[DeathDonkey]

1: Your plan in the "What I did wrong" section is much better than what you actually did.

2: You have to, have to, have to be able to fold this on the turn, there is no way you are ahead and may be in third place

-DeathDonkey

[dfscott]

Everyone seems to be saying to fold on the Turn in hand 2, but I've seen so many middle pairs turned over at SD that it's tough to do. Please tell me again that folding is correct and I'll try to do it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[SoCalPat]

Yeah, it always seems like an ace flops when I'm holding KK as well.

In hindsight, betting out the turn in Hand 1 would have been the right move. But we're dealing with what you knew at the present, and there's so much out there that can beat you. If you bet out here, you have to call a bet on the river (unless you're raised on the turn, in which case you can drop right then). I think you have a situation here where you can't win any more by betting out, but are subject to losing an extra bet.

Hand 2: Another tough one, but when he bets into me on the river after doing likewise on the turn, it's a pretty clear sign he's not trying to make a play on me, especially after I raised the flop. Folding the turn here for one bet at these limits is simply disastrous -- you'll have the better hand often enough to make a call, and the LAG you'll be going up against with his J will check it down on the river.

[DeathDonkey]

To say folding the turn is "disastrous" is just silly. Look, the guy bet out on the flop with an ace, after getting raised preflop. That tells me he either has an ace or wants to represent one. Our hero raises (which is good) and then the button calls two cold with no obvious draws on board (save maybe inside broadway straights). Now the turn comes a blank and the guy bets out again? One of these two opponents has an ace here, its that simple (maybe both).

I'm sorry an ace flopped on your cowboys, but fold it and try again.

-DeathDonkey

[SofaCoach]

hand 1. Like the rest said, bet the turn.

hand 2. Fold the turn ....Easy. Donkey is 100% right. Maybe 1 opponent is foolish enough to challenge you without an Ace, but not both.

[dfscott]

Ok, thanks all. In retrospect, it seems easy. Just caught caught up in the moment, I guess

[dfscott]

Ok, thanks all. In retrospect, it seems easy. Just got caught up in the moment, I guess.