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View Full Version : Long story from last night at the cardroom.


cold_cash
05-01-2004, 06:58 PM
This doesn't belong here, but since is the place where I usually distribute my drivel I don't see why I should change now. If you're not in the mood for a long "probably boring unless you were sitting there" story, you can stop right here. On the other hand, if you're already bored beyond belief and need something to do, please read on. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

My buddy and I wander into our “local” Native American gambling establishment last night to partake in a little low-limit hold ‘em with about 5,000 of our closest friends. After about a 30 minute wait my name gets called and I pull up a chair and settle into what seems to be a pretty festive, happy-go-lucky type of table. Perfect. I’ve only played live about 6-7 times, all at this same casino, and though I don’t know anybody I quickly realize it’s the same cast of characters I sat with last time.

There’s the standard middle-aged, loud-mouthed, over-weight, self-proclaimed “expert” who’s constantly complaining that the stakes are too low, who’s just waiting until he can get into the 10-20 Omaha 8 or better game to really show off his prowess. (This is the guy that everybody avoids at family reunions -- you know what I mean.)

Then of course there’s the 20 year old dude with the sunglasses who thinks it’s a capital offense to crack a smile while playing poker. He can’t be bothered with small talk. He’s studying me. He knows what I’m going to do before I do it. He can see into my soul. One cannot engage in small talk or break one’s concentration for even 2 seconds to say “Hey, how’s it going?” when someone pulls up an adjacent chair. He’s in the WSOP zone. Don’t bother him.

The drunk comes next. What a glorious sight this guy is. At least 4 sheets to the wind and feeling no pain. He’s never seen two cards he didn’t like, and he looooves to throw chips in the pot. He gets his jollies from bullying the kid with the shades, and raising so much that everyone knows it’ll cost 2 bets to limp in. Of course, this fact doesn’t dissuade anyone from limping, and it really makes the drunk’s day when he can make people roll their eyes and think “Oh crap, again with this? Come on buddy.”

Somehow, there’s also a quiet old lady mixed into this group of infidels. She’s polite, and calls guys like me “young man” sometimes. She looks like she just came from church. I’ve played with twice before, and she’s the only familiar face at the table. I know enough about her to know she’s tight as a snare drum and not afraid to get in and mix it up if need be. I like to fool myself into thinking I’m the best player at a table like this, but if I had to be honest it would probably be her. She’s a tough nut, and she looks kind of like my grandma. She’s not afraid of us.

The guy sitting to my left was a really nice guy. He’s the guy in the Hawaiian shirt that isn’t really sure how to play poker but he likes the idea. He just came from the cashier with about $300 dollars worth of white chips, and he’s placed them neatly in 30 stacks of 10 in front of him. (And in front of me, and also in front of the guy to his left.) He likes to try and bet $6 dollars on the first two round of betting, and $3 dollars on the last two. The drunk gets mad at him. He’s having fun though.

In the midst of my sociological evaluation of this scene, we managed to play a little poker. I had one really, really memorable hand which is pretty much the whole point of this post. It was a situation I had never been involved in before and I’m sure it’s something I won’t soon forget. I don’t want it to seem like I’m bragging about winning a huge pot, or just putting down these nice people I was playing with. It was truly a memorable experience, and telling it to my girlfriend or sister doesn’t do it justice, so I decided to share it with you guys. (The action is recalled from memory, but since this is all I've been thinking about for the last 16 hours, I think I got pretty much exactly.) Here it goes—

I’m second to act and find myself holding the QsJs. The drunk, “coach”, and the sunglasses and I end up in this pot for 2 bets apiece. (The coach raised before the flop.) The flop comes down Ks 9s 6d. Sunglasses checks, I bet out, Coach raises, Drunk calls, Sunglasses folds, I call.

Turn brings the 9h. I check, Coach bets, Drunk folds, I call. The river brings the glorious T of Spades.

I think to myself what a wonderful game poker can be sometimes, and ponder my good fortune. I glance over at Coach and he’s staring intently at me with a very serious look on his face. I bet. He calmly raises. I think for a moment before I declare “raise”, yet before the word is even out of my mouth I hear “re-raise” as he puts his chips in front of him. Again, I sit and ponder.

I’ve often wondered what I would do in this situation. I know poker is about making money, not making friends. I told myself if this situation ever came up, I would bet, and bet, and bet again, until the poor sucker on the other end was busted or I was out of chips. Online that wouldn’t be a problem, but seeing his chubby face across the table made me feel differently about the situation. He was probably a nice enough guy, did I really need to take ALL those chips if I was lucky enough to get the chance? Surely I could make do with only taking a few bets. Why make him feel bad?

Strangely though, when I heard “re-raise” my attitude changed. It wasn’t really what he said, but the manner in which he said it – so quickly, so confidently. He was practically daring me to raise again. This pissed me off. I decided I was now going to get more than “just a few” bets out of him to punish him for being so smug. Before I had a chance to follow through with my merciful plan, however, Coach looks over at me and says (in his best “I’m only telling you this for your own good” voice), “You know there’s no cap heads up, right?” I smile nicely back and reply, “Really?”, as I glance at the dealer. He nods and I say, “Lucky for me you said that, I guess. I might have made a big mistake. I’ll raise.” Coach shakes his head because he can’t believe I didn’t leap at his offer to take me off the hook. “One more”, he says. “Raise it”, I reply.

We go back and forth and back and forth for what seems likes forever, and I had made up my mind not to stop until he did. By now I’d convinced myself if he was dumb enough to put all his chips in the middle with his hand, and this board, it was his own damn fault. He stopped well short of that, however, and eventually called after about 9 bets or so. The table was all abuzz because they would finally get to see what all the fuss was about. As I turned my cards over, I see his face getting red. He mumbles something about how lucky I was, and if it weren’t for that luck he would have “busted” me. I nodded in agreement while I wrestled with all those chips. There was no doubt some luck involved, obviously, and even calling his turn bet might have been a mistake. Of course, it would be a cold day in hell before I ever said that out loud, especially when Coach was within earshot. It took me awhile to stack up my new chips, but I didn’t mind.

Coach left the table shortly after this hand to play in the Omaha game. It was a really fun night at the casino. I should probably have learned something from my big hand, and I actually might have, I’m not sure yet. If nothing else, it gave me a story to tell. Is there a moral to this long story? I don’t know that either. Maybe. All I know for sure is that I had to tell somebody, and it might as well be someone who gets it.

Thanks for listening.

bisonbison
05-01-2004, 07:05 PM
and even calling his turn bet might have been a mistake.

You have to call that turn. It's that simple.

Vehn
05-01-2004, 08:33 PM
Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.

thirddan
05-01-2004, 08:44 PM
nice story, very entertaining read...

siccjay
05-01-2004, 08:46 PM
great story, i love it

i could picture each character and even dude throwing raises at u

MicroBob
05-01-2004, 09:13 PM
i think it's an easy-call.....and even more-so given the possibility of extracting an insane amount of bets off of him if you hit the 'ultimate-nuts'. the increased implied-odds of the no-cap heads-up rule has to change things at least a little bit i suspect.


i don't think there's quite as much luck invovled as he wants to believe.
after a couple of raises he should have acknowledged the possibility of a straight-flush....the fact that he didn't is his own damn fault.

are we to assume that he had K's full?? if that's the case then he should have also considered the possibility of quad-9's.

symphonic
05-01-2004, 11:13 PM
Great post. Did you get to find out what he had?

cold_cash
05-02-2004, 01:23 AM
He never actually turned over his cards, but he told everybody he had KK. I can't say for sure but I'm inclined to believe him.

Also, if he had 99 I think he would have qualified for some kind of bad beat deal they have over there, and I'm positive he knew about it so there's no way he mucks those face down.

sfer
05-02-2004, 02:13 AM
That's a great story, well written. Thanks Cash.

I love the caricatures and the part where you feign ignorance about the heads-up no-cap. Really?

There's also something hilarious about a table coach getting annoyed at the draw-outs in a 3/6 Hold 'Em game stepping up to 10/20 Omaha. That's a game where KK holds up.

EDIT: Just wait until you get a hand that exceeds the cap on multiple streets. Good times.

sfer
05-02-2004, 02:23 AM
It looks like KK. 99 goes to the felt.

bakku
05-02-2004, 04:07 AM
This guy went 9 bets with KK? I don't think I can even go 9 bets with 99 here against a decent player. Nice hand, great post

sfer
05-02-2004, 03:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This guy went 9 bets with KK? I don't think I can even go 9 bets with 99 here against a decent player. Nice hand, great post

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? You couldn't go 9 bets with quads on a board that requires two hole cards to a straight flush?

bakku
05-02-2004, 03:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Really? You couldn't go 9 bets with quads on a board that requires two hole cards to a straight flush?

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a decent player, no. What could you put him on that would make *him* want to go 9 bets with you w/o the quads or the straight flush? Table coach is obviously not a decent player..

blackaces13
05-02-2004, 03:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You couldn't go 9 bets with quads on a board that requires two hole cards to a straight flush?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no experience with this which is why I want to give my opinion on it. If you have ANY respect for your opponent, and you are looking at quad 9's in your hand; then what could he possibly have to be putting in a 5th raise, a 7th raise?

If you think a guy is putting in more than a 5th raise with a hand worse than quads on a paired board you'd better be damn sure he's a moron, because each raise you make after the 5th or 6th is pretty much calling him a moron. To say that 99 goes to the felt is an overgeneralization and seems wrong to me.

cold_cash
05-02-2004, 04:00 PM
From his tone and demeanor I'm pretty sure he was thinking I didn't know what I was doing.

I'm guessing it finally occured to him he might be beat only after the 9 bets, and up until that point he just thought he had a live one on his hands. (This is what I'm guessing, anyway. Who knows for sure what was actually going through his head.)

sfer
05-02-2004, 04:10 PM
Maybe you guys play tougher live games than me, but I've taken someone to the felt twice. Once with KK on a KJ55x board against JJ--he 3-bet and I capped preflop and he must have assumed I had AA. A second time with 77 on a 77KKx board. Both had rivered flushes possible, and both went more than 4 bets on the turn/river. I have routinely seen 2 boats exceed 5 bets in aggressive games.

EDIT: In fact, the other night, I saw a little old lady and go 7 bets on the river with 87 on an 887xx board. The other player had 97.

bakku
05-02-2004, 04:19 PM
sfer, I said a decent player /images/graemlins/grin.gif Against most players I'd go the 9 bets for sure.

blackaces13
05-02-2004, 04:24 PM
Maybe you're right, as I've said I have no real world experience with people going to the felt or going 9 bets on the river.

I realize now that I had been imagining it happening between 2 decent players who have at least a modicum of respect for one another. Clearly in real life this would rarely be the case. I still think going 7+ bets with the second nuts and no possible chop is pretty much calling your opponent an idiot. However, often times that's exactly what you are up against so it is appropriate. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

sfer
05-02-2004, 05:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: In fact, the other night, I saw a little old lady and go 7 bets on the river with 87 on an 887xx board. The other player had 97.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meta edit: Other dude had 98. He wasn't a TOTAL moron. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif