1st weeks results for $200 Sit N Go's

[Pitcher]

Hi All,

I posted awhile back about moving up. I wanted to make the move from $50 to $200. I wasn't sure if this was such a great idea, but I had been occassionaly trying these and my results indicated I was not completely outclassed. Because I had such good long term results at the $50 level, I was sure I would be fine. So, here are the 1st. weeks results. This is admittedly not a large enough sample to be statistically valid. Ironically, though, these numbers are very similar to what I was doing at the $50 level. Also, I generally play "1 1/2 games at a time" What that means is that I will be in two games alot. I will start a second game anytime I am not down to heads up in the 1st game because I have a hard time during that period of a tournament concentrating on a second game. Anyway, here are my stats from Poker Tracker

# of tournaments: 44
Net amount won: $4140
Finished in the $: 45.45%
Avg Finish: 4.47
1st. place: 8
2nd place: 4
3rd place: 8

Over 2590 hands here are some further stats to mull over:

Saw Flop All Hands: 16.22%
Saw Flop Not a Blind: 9.85

Hands that I try to Steal on!
Attempt to Steal Blinds (fingers aren't chopped completely off /images/graemlins/grin.gif) :42.23%
Steal Success: 50% no flop, 20% Won without Showdown,
When it went to a showdown on these hands, I won only 52%(ouch /images/graemlins/grin.gif glad William isn't in my games)

% Raised Pre Flop: 16.91
Aggression Factor: 2.29

So, I am pretty happy with these results. That said, it is early and I am sure many of the other players do not have a good read on me yet.

There are a couple of leaks I am working on right now:

1. This is one T_Perkin mentioned. I like to hammer pots with big hands instead of trying to extract extra chips. I am married to this "win the pot now, no matter what" mentality. Hey, if all you have is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail! So, I have resolved to look at each of these situations and see if I have the opportunity to grab more chips (sticky fingers again /images/graemlins/grin.gif)
2. I do not react well when other players raise and I have decent holdings. I seem to think that small raises are a sign of weakness, so I frequently fire back way too hard. I call too many hands in this situation instead of folding. I have a tendency to "react" (frequently not very well) to this with aggression instead of thinking. It leads to some embarrassing early losses. I now have a note on my monitor that says "slow down when others raise" in big bold letters.
So, off too work on these leaks. Any suggestions here are greatly welcome.

Pitcher

[woodguy]

Pitcher,
Looks like you are doing well, I cannot comment further as you are playing well above my level.
I had to respond, because as I read that you had a note on your monitor stating:
"slow down when others raise"
I looked up on my monitor to see my own note : "When raised, I think, I do not react"
The note has helped me slow down and quit making as many "coin-flip" calls as I used to.
What other mental reminders do you use?
Regards,
woodguy

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi All,

I posted awhile back about moving up. I wanted to make the move from $50 to $200. I wasn't sure if this was such a great idea, but I had been occassionaly trying these and my results indicated I was not completely outclassed. Because I had such good long term results at the $50 level, I was sure I would be fine. So, here are the 1st. weeks results. This is admittedly not a large enough sample to be statistically valid. Ironically, though, these numbers are very similar to what I was doing at the $50 level. Also, I generally play "1 1/2 games at a time" What that means is that I will be in two games alot. I will start a second game anytime I am not down to heads up in the 1st game because I have a hard time during that period of a tournament concentrating on a second game. Anyway, here are my stats from Poker Tracker

# of tournaments: 44
Net amount won: $4140
Finished in the $: 45.45%
Avg Finish: 4.47
1st. place: 8
2nd place: 4
3rd place: 8


[/ QUOTE ]

If you can maintain that, are you ditching your day job? Or did you do that already?

Pretty phenomenal results. Hope they hold up for you.

eastbay

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi All,

I posted awhile back about moving up. I wanted to make the move from $50 to $200. I wasn't sure if this was such a great idea, but I had been occassionaly trying these and my results indicated I was not completely outclassed. Because I had such good long term results at the $50 level, I was sure I would be fine. So, here are the 1st. weeks results. This is admittedly not a large enough sample to be statistically valid. Ironically, though, these numbers are very similar to what I was doing at the $50 level. Also, I generally play "1 1/2 games at a time" What that means is that I will be in two games alot. I will start a second game anytime I am not down to heads up in the 1st game because I have a hard time during that period of a tournament concentrating on a second game. Anyway, here are my stats from Poker Tracker

# of tournaments: 44
Net amount won: $4140
Finished in the $: 45.45%
Avg Finish: 4.47
1st. place: 8
2nd place: 4
3rd place: 8


[/ QUOTE ]

Just for kicks, here are some of my numbers at the $50 level:

# played: 172
Net amt: $2690
Finished in the $: 42%
Avg finish: 4.33
1st,2nd,3rd: 25,22,26

[ QUOTE ]

Over 2590 hands here are some further stats to mull over:

Saw Flop All Hands: 16.22%
Saw Flop Not a Blind: 9.85


[/ QUOTE ]

16.56
9.18

Remarkably similar.

[ QUOTE ]

Hands that I try to Steal on!
Attempt to Steal Blinds (fingers aren't chopped completely off :grin:) :42.23%
Steal Success: 50% no flop, 20% Won without Showdown,
When it went to a showdown on these hands, I won only 52%(ouch :grin: glad William isn't in my games)


[/ QUOTE ]
Attempted: 33%
59% no flop
64% won w/o SD
29% won at showdown

Looks like I have something to learn here. At what blind level do you start bothering with a steal attempt? I tend to not do much blind stealing until about the 50/100 or 100/200 level, at which point I tend to start going after them very aggressively, often moving in if I have about 10x BB in my stack or less.

The win at showdown #'s appear to say that you're taking blinds with fewer all-ins than me. I lose a lot showdowns because of "only called when beat" scenarios, which isn't necessarily bad, IMO, depending on how much you're making per steal and how often you're going to run into a calling hand.

[ QUOTE ]

% Raised Pre Flop: 16.91
Aggression Factor: 2.29


[/ QUOTE ]

13%
2.58

I think this is indicative of my play as being a little too "all or nothing," too. I am usually quite rockish, playing only premium hands until about the 50/100 or 100/200 levels, at which I point I start moving in pretty liberally until I get doubled through, or grow my stack with blinds. This often catches people off guard at the $50 level. There seem to be two types of reactions:

1) The guys who think an all-in is always a bluff, and will double you up the first time you catch AT or better.

2) The guys who have you pegged as a rock and don't realize how big of an adjustment you've made, and will basically fold you the tournament.

In either case, it's a pretty good scenario. The guys who think every all-in is a bluff are more problematic as they at least threaten to end you even if they call you while behind.

eastbay

[PrayingMantis]

Great results, Pitcher.

Hope you'll keep getting these numbers, also on a larger sample.

I completely identify with what you say about "slow down when others raise", even on the lower buy-in's where I play. A raise infront of me would really make me consider and reconsider if I want to play, even if I hold some very nice hand. This is especially true, after a long series of hands when I was getting dealt garbage. It's very tempting to play your 99, TT, AJ, AQ, but so many times I find myslef behind or a coin-flip with this EP, or MP raiser, so I'm trying to give a good thought about my read of him, and other aspects, before I act.

Good job.

[jerome baker]

can you share w/ us how many 55 sng's have u played?
also, waht is your roi for the 55's.
thx.

[Pitcher]

Hi Jerome,

Over 2400. I averaged 220 per month for 11 months. My ROI was just over 40% with a 44% in the money. Note that my ROI rose slightly over that time and my % in the money dropped slightly (was pegged at 45.9% after 6 months). The reason for this is I started playing just a few more hands early so I could have more chips at the bubble.

Pitcher

[Pitcher]

Hi Eastbay,

Yeah, the results are good, but I am only cautiously optimistic. I haven't had the inevitable 6 game slide yet. Also, something really odd occurred on (I believe) Wednesday morning. I got up real early and played several tournaments. During that time I won two. They were the worst played tournaments I had seen in months. It reminded me of a $10 tourney. I was in shock. I have not seen play like that since, so my results may be skewed slightly by that. Even taking those away though, the results are promising.

Pitcher

[Pitcher]

Hi Preying Mantis,

I am with you about the results. I hope they hold up.

So I am not the only one around here with that react before thinking mentality! It is reassuring that I am not the only one struggling with this. At the same time, we need to fix it and I think slowing down and carefully evaluating is the only way to do it. I am trying harder and harder to play players instead of hands. I find this difficult at this level because I haven't played much with these players. I quickly need to develop the skill to see how individuals play with limited information. I have tended to focus on the tendencies of the whole table as opposed to individuals. That helps, but it is not enough IMO. Just slowing down should help. One thing I do now is keep my hand off the mouse when others bet. When I hold onto the mouse, I tend to react without thinking more often.

On another front, I will repeat what I said. If you are not playing at the $200 level, you should be (at least on PP). I think you play better than I do based on experience and your posts, so get with it! (unless I have this wrong and you are already are playing this level). I would say the same the Eastbay.

Pitcher

[Pitcher]

Hi Woodguy,

I have a poker diary (a running word document) that has a "preparedness" checklist. I go through this list before I play. I have anger issues, so I have a post that says "Respect the Game and the Players. Stay Calm" This helps combat feelings of revenge when someone makes a bad play and beats me. Any anger is a loss of control that must be combatted. That helps. I have one other message and I find this one invaluable:

Don't challenge strong players,
Challenge weak ones
That's what they're there for

This quote by John Vorhaus (Killer Poker) helps me more than any other. If you know a couple of other players on a table are strong capable players, don't tangle with them until you have to at the end! This helps alot!

Pitcher

[t_perkin]

Yes playing too fast is something that I have commented on before at this forum.

I have been trying to slow down all of my actions, not just situations which are obviously important.

I have been experimenting with not allowing myself to act before the clock starts to count (except PF). This works quite well.

Concerning extracting more money - I am getting better at it (still plenty to work on) . The O8 is the thing that is really teaching me things in this department, especially in multiway pots. People should have a go at it, it is also very profitable.

$200 is too rich for me. I don't think I am good enough, and even if I was I don't think I could handle the swings. But best of luck to you - although it sounds like you may not need it.

Tim

[AceOfSpade]

Hi guys,

I looked at the stats of Eastbay and Pitcher and I founded some differences between those and mines. I would really appreciate if you could help me find a way to correct some of the mistakes I do.

Those are the results for my sit and go 9 players on Pokerstars 20$+2$ buy-in

# played: 131
Net amt: $ 934 – ROI: 32.4%
Finished in the $: 41.98%
Avg finish: 4.24
1st,2nd,3rd: 27,19,9

I think those are not bad results and I like the fact that when Im able to survive till the money I can often move up to the first position. This is probably because I do a lot of head to head on the side. But I think that I don’t finish in the money often enough. Maybe the next stats will help you explain me why…
-- -------------------------------------
Total hands: 9083

Saw Flop All Hands: 24.97%
Saw Flop Not a Blind: 12.38%

I think that I see too many flops. My percentages are way over those of Eastbay and Pitcher. But I don’t understand why because I only play good hands during the first rounds of a sit and go. Maybe those are still too loose :

AA, KK, QQ, AK : Almost always
JJ, TT, AQ, AJ, KQ : any position without a big raise.
Suited connectors : late with some limpers
Axs : late with some limpers
Other Poket pair : any position without a raise or sometimes a BB raise.

Those are not 100% accurate because I try to mix my plays but they represent well my standards.
-- ---------------------------------------
Attempt to Steal Blinds :27.90%
47.72% no flop
63.75% Won without Showdown,
53.58% Won at showdown

Maybe this is too low, I think I should be more aggressive preflop.
-- ----------------------------------------
% Raised Pre Flop: 14.17%


Aggression Factor:
Preflop: 1.02
Flop: 2.55
Turn: 2.07
River: 1.67
Total : 1.38

I think that my aggression factor is way too low. I think that I could do a lot more of preflop raise, but at the same time I think that I already see too many flop (Saw Flop All Hands: 24.97%) so this is confusing me…

-- ----------------------------------

So those are my stats for my last sit and go… If you find something that you think I should improve please let me know, it would be really appreciated!! Also, if you have any hints on how I could improve those points it would be really appreciated too!

Thx

[Pitcher]

Hi AceOfSpade,

Congratulations. Your results are very good. It sounds like your play once you reach the $$$ is superior!

That said, I do think you are calling with too many hands.
I believe the discrepancy in the call percentages have to do with my reluctance to play anything but premium cards early (usually untll 2-3 players are gone, minimum) and some small differences in starting requirements. I almost never play suited connectors less than QJ (and even then I normally don't play those) and I just don't play Ax suited unless the kicker is above an 8 (and then I toss that nearly everytime as well). I also give up a lot of blinds to steals (I believe this is an area I need to work on!)

Another difference you mentioned was aggression. One of the reasons that my aggression numbers are higher is the high percentage of steals I attempt during midgame (6 or fewer players left) That shift of gears that Eastbay described is crucial. I try to steal early (blind size doesn't matter, but it is rarely below 25/50 by the start of the midgame) in the midgame to determine two things. First, will my opponents defend their blinds (this means re-raise in my mind, not calling) and second, will they fold to a 2x raise. If they will, you can afford to be more aggressive. You simply are risking less when they play back at you if 2x is generally enough to steal. It makes it a lot easier to get away from hands.
I might note, that if anything, I would like to be even more aggressive! I would love to hear EastBay's feelings about this since his aggression number is higher than mine!

So, call fewer hands, and get more aggressive stealing.

Now, you tell me some of your head up tricks. With those numbers, you gotta share!

Pitcher

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]

I think that I see too many flops. My percentages are way over those of Eastbay and Pitcher. But I don’t understand why because I only play good hands during the first rounds of a sit and go. Maybe those are still too loose :

AA, KK, QQ, AK : Almost always
JJ, TT, AQ, AJ, KQ : any position without a big raise.
Suited connectors : late with some limpers
Axs : late with some limpers
Other Poket pair : any position without a raise or sometimes a BB raise.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't play suited connectors or Axs, pretty much at all (until the very end, when they become all-in hands). I ditch mid to low pairs from EP. I'll throw away KQ most of the time. That's the difference right there.

[ QUOTE ]

I think that my aggression factor is way too low. I think that I could do a lot more of preflop raise, but at the same time I think that I already see too many flop (Saw Flop All Hands: 24.97%) so this is confusing me…


[/ QUOTE ]

You are calling into the flop more than raising and being called.

I very much prefer to be "in control" of the hand by being the raiser and/or bettor. I tend to get out of the way and let others play at each other unless that's the case, unless my holdings are very strong.

But, I think both of you guys are getting a little better return than me, so I wouldn't necessarily take higher aggression factor as necessarily better! If something's working for you, stick with it.

eastbay

[woodguy]

Pither,
Sound advice.
I can't get over how much usefull information that I am getting from everyone on this forum.
Thanks again,
woodguy

[Profit]

Since Ace is playing on Stars, where the starting chip count is greater than at Party (1500 vs 800) isn't it "okay" to have a slightly higher percent of flops seen? I know when i play at Stars, i see flops with hands that i would probably fold on Party just because in essense it is "cheaper" to see the flops early in Stars than it is in Party. Do you guys think that this is a mistake on my part?

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Since Ace is playing on Stars, where the starting chip count is greater than at Party (1500 vs 800) isn't it "okay" to have a slightly higher percent of flops seen? I know when i play at Stars, i see flops with hands that i would probably fold on Party just because in essense it is "cheaper" to see the flops early in Stars than it is in Party. Do you guys think that this is a mistake on my part?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily. You make a good point, IMO.

Those suited connectors, etc are "implied odds" hands and the bigger stack to blind ratio, the more implied odds you're getting, all other things being equal.

eastbay