Vhing

[andyfox]

I'm in a 40-80 game at Commerce. The game is just fair. After a bit I need to stretch my fifty-one year old legs and as I'm getting up, another player, two tables over, also a 40-80 game, beckons to me.

We know each other on a first name basis and although he hasn't much personality, we have a cordial relationship. He's very tight and while he's fold-fold-folding, he generally reads a Chinese newspaper; not all that unusual, given that he's Chinese.

So anyway he beckons to me and I go over and ask him what's up. He asks me how my game is. Now he's basically a pro and I've never not seen him playing when I come in, so I know he knows very well exactly how my game is. I tell him it's not so good, about the same as the one he's in. He nods and says, oh, by the way, what does "vhing" mean? "Vhing?" I ask. Yes, he says and points to the article he's reading in an English language poker rag (Card Player or Poker Joker or somesuch). The word is "vying," but he pronounces is not as vie-ing but in one, long, drawn-out syllable--"vhing," rhyming with winnnnnnng.

"Oh, vhing," I respond. "It means competing."

"Oh," he says, "did I pronounce it OK?"

"Yes, perfect," I say. "Keep on vhing."

I think poker is a lot easier to master than English spelling and pronunciation.

But I'll keep on trhing.

[youtalkfunny]

You're a mean man. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[James Boston]

You have to sympathize. I've heard more broken English at the Grand than in the rest of my life accumulated. Particularly, I'm thinking of a 4-8 regular with a THICK cajun accent. Last time I was there, I got seated next to him and he insisted on talking to me non-stop. I mostly nodded and pretended to understand him.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Everything I've read indicates that English is a very tough language to learn. Imagine having to figure out how to pronounce "enough", "though", "through", and "bough" if you didn't grow up learning the language.

That being said, Spanish, Gernam and French were relatively easy for me to learn (not that I speak French with any degree of fluency), but Japanese is like from another planet.

[PokerBabe(aka)]

Hi Andy.

How would the Chinese guy pronounce LGPG? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Cute story.

Babe /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[andyfox]

Thanks. Hey, sorry I won't be able to make it for the golf tournament. Sounds like fun.

Regards,
Andy

[youtalkfunny]

I studied Korean in the Army's Foreign Language school in Monterey.

In Korean, the preposition comes at the end of a prepositional phrase, and the verb comes at the end of the sentence. Placing the subject before the object is optional. Words like "the" and "a" don't exist.

So to say, "I'm going to the store for cigarettes," you need to THINK "Store to I cigarettes for go."

My point? If you think it's hard for us to learn that language, I'd say it's more than twice as hard for THEM to learn OUR language. At least their "rules" are not riddled with "exceptions"!

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

In Japanese, there are 5 words for the verb "to give." Which one you use is dependent upon the relationship between the speaker, listener, giver and receiver. What that relationship is, is a complex mix of age, sex, relationship and social status.

Japanese also uses particles to indicate relationships between words (subject & object, but also relational in time and space). For example, in English we say "where is the cat?" In Japanese it is "Neko wa doko ni arimasu ka" where wa, ni, and ka are particles - so you actually are saying "Cat (subject) where (spacial locator) is (question)" Now couple that with the fact that you never say anything directly. The way you say "I am thirsty" is "The throat got dry." (loose translation)

Japanese also uses three alphabets, two syllabic and one pictographic (as opposed to English which uses one symbolic alphabet). Those three alphabets are not used independent of one another, rather thay are always mixed in any writing. Also, there are no spaces between words.

I studied Japanese for my work a few years back. After Beginners I, II & III (each 8 week courses) I went to my boss and explained that the only way I was going to be able to learn the language well enough to use it in business would be to quit my job for a year and study it full time. Thus ended that experiment. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[CCass]

But is Japanese easier to learn than Klingon?

[MicroBob]

when someone who does not speak english correctly asks how to pronounce a word, they are typically asking because they want to get it right.

you are probably just trying to be polite because you don't want to point out their errors....but they are relying on you to help them learn the language better. that's why he asked you if he got it right.



a couple of my foreign friends appreciate it when i make minor corrections in their grammar (which i don't do all the time of course).
they know that they commit many routine errors in their english and they want to stop the mistakes that they know they are continually making.
in return, i have learned a little bit of spanish, japanese and chinese (most of which i don't remember for very long).

[Barry]

My Japanese is very rusty, but I found it a relatively easy language to learn, only 2 tenses to the verbs and and you can get by mostly by using the "standard" polite form. But using ka, ne or yo after the verb can be somewhat tricky depending on how much emphasis you want to give to your statement.

So long as you can "biro desu o-negaishimas" everything else is gravy.

[Bob T.]

So long as you can "biro desu o-negaishimas" everything else is gravy.

'Moo itidoo, kudasai' is also useful.

[John Cole]

Kurn,

Saying the words, though, may not be the trickiest part for ESL learners. Writing in English proves more nettlesome, especially given the sorts of constructions the first language uses, as you point out below. Prepositions, articles, and verb tense are very dificult to master. In addition, Asian writers, for example, have trouble getting to the point. They approach matters less directly, in a more circular style.

This semester I'm teaching an oral communication class, which depends on both writing and speech. I have students from Columbia, Laos, Cambodia, Peru, the Dominican, and even Rhode Island. Some nights after class my head hurts.

[Tommy Angelo]

"But I'll keep on trhing."

Beautiful story. You made me homesick and I haven't even left for Vegas yet. (This year's journey includes a fresh vow to myself to be more tolerant of familiar cultures.)


Tommy

[Peter]

[ QUOTE ]
Now couple that with the fact that you never say anything directly. The way you say "I am thirsty" is "The throat got dry." (loose translation)


[/ QUOTE ]

"The throat got dry" sounds a lot more direct to me than "I'm thirsty".

If someone says the first, you know he has a dry throat. If someone says the latter he could have a dry throat, he could have eaten something hot and needs a fire extinguisher, or he's just an alcoholic in need for another beer.

Peter