Folding to Find Out Where You Are At

[PrayingMantis]

Now, seriously. I've been thinking about this a lot, and this is the best way, IMHO, to beat SNGs, on any level, including the notorious 5000+500$ buy-in's on UB, where Ivey and Hansen lose to me on a regular basis.

Well, it's pretty simple, but very devastating to your opponent. Basically, I try to FOLD in order to find out where I am.

First, with vulnerable hands. If I raise, get one caller, and hit a TP with a good kicker, I FOLD. Why risk chips against an opponent that might as well have anything, and can easily improve to a ROYAL FLUSH by the river?

Second, If I hit a monster, for instance: quads A, I immidiately FOLD, and by that I make my opponent THINK he had the best hand. This will puts a tilt on him for the rest of the game, and I'll be able to FOLD into him and make him gain LESS money on me, when he DOES hit his hand.

Finally, I almost always FOLD whenever I don't make my hand. The reason here is obvious. Why play a hand if I didn't hit anything? Better wait for a better chance to FOLD.

Any thoughts?

[Prickly Pete]

Cmon. There are about 8 million posts on these forums worse than the one you are making fun of. It may not be the most sound strategy, but it's made for a good thought-provoking thread.

[PrayingMantis]

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Cmon. There are about 8 million posts on these forums worse than the one you are making fun of. It may not be the most sound strategy, but it's made for a good thought-provoking thread.


[/ QUOTE ]

I insist that the "checking" approach, *as described* in the last post by the OP in the "checking" thread, is, probably, the worst strategy advice I've read on these forums. And I've read a lot. Also, I don't have any intention of making fun of 37o. I hope he stays around and improves, like I and others do.

As for the "folding" approach: in my view, it is an improved version of the original "checking" approach. I'm pretty sure it can get you about the same ROI, but with somewhat less variance. Hope this will be thought provoking too.

[Prickly Pete]

I agree with you that "as described" the checking as a regular play would be very problematic. But I think it can be a decent tool if used the right amount (i.e. not too often) and in the right spot.

There, that should make this thread at least a little thought-provoking.

As for folding your Quad A's, I thought this was pretty standard stuff early on when the pot's not big enough to warrant winning. I only go after the really big pots. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with you that "as described" the checking as a regular play would be very problematic. But I think it can be a decent tool if used the right amount (i.e. not too often) and in the right spot.


[/ QUOTE ]

Of course. Checking can be a very powerful tool, if used wisely, and especially if balanced with a decent amount of aggressiveness.

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As for folding your Quad A's, I thought this was pretty standard stuff early on when the pot's not big enough to warrant winning. I only go after the really big pots

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So, you are actually advocating folding the Quads A's only if it's early on in the game. I must say there's a point in what you say, although I would try folding them also on the bubble, with a small stack. This can put a lot of pressure on the medium stacks.

[Prickly Pete]

[ QUOTE ]
So, you are actually advocating folding the Quads A's only if it's early on in the game. I must say there's a point in what you say, although I would try folding them also on the bubble, with a small stack. This can put a lot of pressure on the medium stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really need to work on my bubble game obviously. /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

(Am I allowed to use multiple grins or will William bum rush me? /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif)

[William]

the notorious 5000+500$ buy-in's on UB, where Ivey and Hansen lose to me on a regular basis.

I've just talk to my friend Gus, and he confirms the beating. I can't say anything about Ivey, him I don't know.

Why risk chips against an opponent that might as well have anything, and can easily improve to a ROYAL FLUSH by the river

This sounds to me as sound strategy and common sense. as we all know, survival is the first priority in tourneys.

If I hit a monster, for instance: quads A, I immidiately FOLD

Here, I suspect you have been talking to Heyrocker and this is an clever improvement of his famous "Fold AA preflop" strategy.

Finally, I almost always FOLD whenever I don't make my hand

I use the same strategy. Unless of course I'm up against the tricky Doc who's always looking for an oportunity to steal.
It usually ends by me getting rivered, so it only proves that I should stick to the general folding strategy, but as I am obsessed by the idea of busting the Doc, I don't think this will ever happen.

Great thread, it was about time we had some new solid advice about modern poker.

William /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[CrisBrown]

Hiya William (and P.M.),

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Great thread, it was about time we had some new solid advice about modern poker.

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It is a great thread, and solid advice. However, P.M. missed the more powerful strategy of SITTING OUT to find out where you're at. Basically, you buy into the SNG, then immediately hit the "sit out" button. Then go watch that impeccable "How To" poker video, the World Poker Tour, and come back in an hour or two.

This offers you the additional advantage of requiring less discipline than manually folding; your hand is folded for you automatically, so you can't get drawn into tinkering around with those sucker hands like AA.

Since adopting this strategy, I haven't had a single bad beat.

Cris

P.S. P.M., don't forget the power of the bluff fold. This will often trip your opponents up and you can lose a pot with absolutely nothing.

[AleoMagus]

I find these two strategies highly unethical. By folding, you are clearly giving yourself an unfair advantage over other players and it is a cheating way to play.

By sitting out to find out where you are at, you are allowing yourself the luxury of not having to get involved in possible bad beats when you have a monster hand. This is both cowardly and unfair to outhers, and must clearly be dealt with by the sites. I just hope these two strategies don't get out to the masses or we will have total chaos on our hands.

Yes, folding has gone on too long and I am not gonna stand for it anymore!

Regards
Brad S /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[PrayingMantis]

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Great thread, it was about time we had some new solid advice about modern poker.


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Thank you William. I really wanted your opinion on this one. And Cris too, for some more solid improvement of the overall strategy.

I Hope no one ever folds into you with the nuts.