10-20 4-handed

[auntieklava]

The SB in this hand is an agressive winning player. BB is imo the best regular at this limit. I'll virtually always fold this preflop, so a simple "fold preflop" will do. Comments on all other actions appreciated.


Paradise Poker 10/20 Hold'em (4 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero raises, Button folds, SB 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
SB bets, BB calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (12 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: (15 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets


Results to follow

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
The SB in this hand is an agressive winning player. BB is imo the best regular at this limit. I'll virtually always fold this preflop, so a simple "fold preflop" will do.


[/ QUOTE ]
I know you aren't looking for this, but I'm going to say it anyway: WHY are you still seated at this table? It's 4 handed, and you perceive there are two solid, winning players. Leave!!!

[ QUOTE ]
Comments on all other actions appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]


If these two guys are as good as you say, I find the river bet to be an easy value bet. However, if either of them show you a higher two pair (ie KQ) or a set, then you need to revise your thoughts on them. That is, unless the SB has KQ and does indeed check raise you. I read BB for KK or AQs until his river check -- I just don't get that. I'm baffled what he has though I now suspect it's just one pair.

Interesting hand, can't wait to see the results.

I'm also interested to hear which reg you consider to be the best reg at this limit. If you are willing to PM me who you think is, I'd like to hear who and either agree or disagree to it.

[Requeim]

I'd fold preflop given your description of the players, I'd definitely fold after its capped when its back to you. I'm not calling 2 more cold with 98o. That's your +EV play.

[1800GAMBLER]

OK, you don't want to fold this preflop, raising is the next best option.

OK, raising [censored] up and it came back to you capped. Hell if you like money nows a good time to fold.

You missed a value bet on the river.

[chezlaw]

How about raising the turn. You probably have the best hand, the pots big, and no one guessing you have 98. One or both of them might think their drawing dead and fold hands like KQ or TT.

Easy value bet on the river and fold twice pre-flop.

[auntieklava]

Folding when it's two bets back to me preflop is probably the best EV play, but I do think its pretty marginal, so having come this far I'll call a fair bit of the time to throw some of my better opponents off. If suited I'd pretty much always call.

As for the turn; with all the flop aggression I thought it quite likely I was behind, and I didn't want to see it go to three bets. I still agree that raising here is a very valid option though.

[gonores]

Lots of points.

1. What Schneids said. Work on your game selection. I'd also like to know who your best reg. is.

2. 4 handed w/ what I am assuming to be at least semi-tight blinds...I don't think raising 89o is terrible poker, but calling the cap is ugly.

3. I have BB narrowed down to exactly one hand once he checks the river...AK, probably with the Ace of spades. SB should have A9, TT, JJ, QQ (these pocket pairs have a spade in them) just maybe KQ or KJ, but I think these are lesser possibilities.

Easy river value bet.

[Requeim]

I think its not even close to being a marginal call when its 2 back to you preflop. You got your hand caught in the cookie jar, let the hand go was your best choice.

When its reraised and capped behind you, what do you put them on?(remember these are what you described as solid players at this level) At best, you are hoping they each have 2 overcards, but most likely you are looking at an overpair and 2 overcards.

As far as the turn goes, I would've raised and tried to knock out the SB. You have to do everything you can to win the pot.

[naphand]

Why would calling two cold with 98o throw your opponents off?

Occasionally raising with suited connectors UTG/EP for meta-game considerations is cool, but I think you want to get to showdown cheap thereafter unless you flop a set or better, or the board is otherwise very favourable for you. Offsuit connectors, ho-hum, but your ploy got caught out and I think when you are in a calling-two-cold situation with this kind of cheese you don't achieve much except losing $$ by calling. You really have to flop 2-pair or better with no re-draws against you, unpaired board and no more than 1 overcard, to keep on. In this case you achieved it, but I think this is happening 5-10% of the time, and you are only getting 5:1 to call. I don't think it's marginal at all, dump it.

If anyone can provide more accurate figures than this, I stand to be corrected. I doubt that 2-pair or better, with no re-draws etc. happens even close to 20% of the time.

[auntieklava]

I got called on the river in both places, SB had K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif, BB had A /images/graemlins/heart.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gif.


Everyone seems to agree that the preflop call is hopeless, and even though I think some decent arguments can be made for calling, I guess folding is the best play most of the time. As for game selection, I find playing good opponents one of the best ways to improve my game, so I'm not always too fussed about giving up some expectation for it.