sometimes it's nice to be the suckee

Online 3/6. This hand is a dog's breakfast.


3 limpers to a Questionable raiser who raises. He has been doing this a lot with hands like A4s or KQo. I have Jh 8h in the SB and decide to play it. BB folds and the 3 limpers come along. 5 to the flop, 5 big bets.


*** FLOP *** : [ Jd 9d 5h ]


Okay. I'm sure QR is going to bet this no matter what. I decide to check, and if it get's checked to QR I will raise and try to get heads up with him. I want any overcards to fold to the two bets. If someone else bets and QR raises I will fold, because my J is probably no good. Sure enough everyone folds to QR and he bets. I raise and my plan is working perfectly.....but L1 cold calls, L2 cold calls ...damn...L3 folds and QR raises again. Uh oh. I'm not ahead. I call, and both limpers call. 4 to the turn, 11 big bets in the pot.


*** TURN *** : [ Jd 9d 5h ] [ 7h ]


I probably couldn't have asked for a better card. I now have a flush draw and a double gut-shot straight draw. I check. Anyone bet this? QR bets and everyone calls. Still 4 to the river and 15 big bets in the pot.


*** RIVER *** : [ Jd 9d 5h 7h ] [ 4h ]


Yippee!! I bet. I'm sure they're calling, and I'd hate to see it checked around. Anyone try a check-raise?


2 of them called me. L1 had the really questionable A9 for 2nd pair. QR had AJ and seemed pretty steamed.


Someone remind me of this hand next time I complain that I got sucked out on.

Whooooooaaaaaaah Nelly.


Judging from your description of QR I'd have to say that there is certainly some doubt about whether or not he has you beat. If you agree that your hand is worth paying HIM off, if only the callers weren't in...


... then once you pick up your big draw you should RAISE on the turn figuring to drive out the bigger Jack behind you. At worst he calls and you put in a double bet against 2 players with your 15-18 or so outs. How much can that possibly cost? This won't work often but when it does its Cha-Ching!!!


- Louie

I like it Louie. At the time it never occurred to me, but I believe you are spot on here.


It might have finally driven out the unknowns, and left me up against the guy who could have anything.

I think your preflop play was questionable.


I don't care if the guy is a questionable raiser or not. You will burn up a lot of chips calling raises from the small blind with J,8 suited, esp. when the sb is 1/3 of the bb.

Totally agree dk. This is a classic case of a Hold'em player foolishly over-estimating the importance of an opponent being over-aggressive having enough impact to change their decision into playing 'marginal hands'.


Two facts:

1) The live player is raising hands he 'shouldn't be raising'. The means you must either decice to play a hand you normally wouldn't play for two bets or fold a hand you would easily play for one bet, but is possibly forced out from playing by a non-legimate raise. Two tough choices.


2) The correct decision, when not head-up (and sometimes even when no-one else has entered the pot YET, like 98s), is usually a fold. Go ahead and three-bet a maniac with ATo. Play according to the knowledge you have on your live opponent. But J8s in BB vs 2-3 limpers? Remember you have to play the limpers to, and weak Jacks happen to be in severe trouble against a couple of limpers very often.


You need to explain why J8s plays better for two bets pre-flop against a questionable raisor and a couple of limpers rather than against a couple of limpers and a solid raisor. 'QR' raises many more Aces (including AJ and A8!!), lot of Kings (including KJ!!) and couple of hands such as 98s and 66. You didn't call him a maniac, so I presume it stops just about there. Why does suddenly J8s become so much more playable here?


This excact hand, I would almost prefer to play against a solid raisor. I *know* that I am not dominated by no-pair hands (except perhaps AJs/AJ) and I will play the hand better post-flop as I will be able to read my opponent more accurately.


lars

dk,


I agree with you. I think it's an okay call for 2/3 of a bet but not for almost 2 bets. I'm still fairly new to poker and the urge to play hands still hits me at times.


On the other hand this hand gave me half of my profit for the session. I got very lucky in this case. I appreciate the comments. Hopefully they will sink in someday.

"He has been doing this a lot with hands like A4s or KQo." (raising). Didn't see that one David. I just want to say that if this is the worst hand he is raising in these spots, then he's not far off from playing fairly correct pre-flop. Raising 2-3 limpers one or two off the button (I actually like that better than raising on the button, because a big part of the reason a raise with those cards, or at least slightly better ones, is correct, is that you often get the button by making that play too). Maybe your are mixing up your impression of your opponent with the fact that he bets to many flops, particularly in late position (given your quote: 'I KNOW QR will bet this flop.").


Secondly, your post-flop play is fine.


lars