Correct amount to bet

[davidross]

Playing a party NL, WSOP qualifier last night. 15 seats will be awarded. I have managed to get to the middle rounds with a slightly above average stack (4140). I think my early tournament play has improved, as I seem to be getting to the middle rounds with some chips, but I am still struggling terrribly with how to play at these times. Sitting and waiting for big pairs doesn't seem to be working. In this hand I am the small blind, and the blinds are 100/200. EP(7075) limps, MP(2107) limps and the action is on me with Ac 9s. I complete my blind and the BB(6930) checks.

FLop is Ad 8h 5s.

I check. I wanted to see if there was any significant action, especially from the 2 big stacks before playing. I am prepared to dump it if there is. Checked to MP who bets 400. I raise him 400 more. Folded back to him and he calls.

Turn [Ad 8h 5s] 6c

He has 1100 left and I put him all in. He calls and turns over 9h 7h for the gutshot straight.

Am I making too much of this because he hit his longshot? I think I probably should have put him all in on my checkraise since I was going to put him all in anyway. It also might have discouraged the other two from playing in case they were thinking about it, but in fact my line would have given me an extra 400 chips most of the time.

Any suggestions on what my line should have been?

[B-Man]

Why make a limit raise in a no-limit game?

Raise enough to increase the chance your opponent will fold.

From your opponent's perspective, do you realize he was correct to call your raise? He was getting 4-1 pot odds to call your raise, and he was slightly better than a 4-1 dog. If you raise all-in, he'd be making a mistake to call. But because you raised the minimum, he is getting correct odds to call.

[NotMitch]

I dont think I like the flop check. You probably have the best hand here so bet it. By checking you gave MP the chance to make a semi bluff bet and then with a min raise gave him the price to draw at his hand.

What if he bet the pot on the flop do you fold? This is a pretty good flop for yor hand and if you can't fire a bet on the flop I don't think you can play it in this spot. There a lot of hands that you beat that will take a stab at the pot if they are checked to since the pot was unraised and a lot of the time that will be a pot sized bet. I think your best shot of taking it down is firing right out.

[davidross]

Is he really getting correct odds for 4 outs? I would have thought he'd need 10-1 or better.

[davidross]

I certainly considered betting, but really didn't want to mix it up with either of the big stacks on my left. If they had bet I was going to fold. Maybe that was really weak, but I was willing to wait for a better spot.

[BabyJesus]

hmm lets see pot is 800 when he bets 400 then you raise him to 800 so he's getting 5:1 for a call with implied odds of, 8:1 at best. Odds of 4 outer on turn is 4/47 which is about 12:1 so his call here is wrong for him. His play has negative EV you should be very happy for anyone to make that call. So we know now that heads up you're begging a call from the gutshot now about do you want other people to call? If EP limped with hands such as AT AJ AQ AK 88 55, you can only really get him to fold AT or AJ I don't really see AK or AK folding is this spot with a large stack. Now lets say EP is on a flush draw. He's getting 3:1 on a call if MP calls. Odds for hitting flush on turn, 9/47 or about 5:1. So negative EV for flush draw. Sooooo all that said, I think your min raise was just fine. You're laying the gutshot negative EV on his call and you can still get out of the hand if EP flopped a set or a higher kicker than you. It makes it easier for EP to fold something like AT or AJ cuz its 800 cold to him. I think the play was fine in my opinion, just unlucky. Part of poker you can make all the right moves and still lose to a big underdog.

[serling]

Hi David --

I would definitely have bet the flop. Particularly because no one raised preflop, I figure your mid-Ace is good enough to take it down. Plus you would know where you stood if you get raised.

Checking makes things a little tricky. Could be a steal bet from MP. But since you were planning to check-raise him, yes, I think you should've put him all-in.

However... I would first consider raising preflop to knock out the free ride for the BB.


serling

[Greg (FossilMan)]

If you never ever for the rest of your life do a mini-raise while playing NLH, you will almost never have made a mistake because of it. It is usually the wrong bet.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[davidross]

Thanks Greg,

Something tells me that will stay with me for a long time.

Hey I hope to meet you in Vegas at the WSOP. I'm going to look for you.