Fit or fold?

[twang]

This is probably a very stupid question, but what is the general consensus here on the subject "fit or fold"? Should you bet/call/raise on the flop with hands that don´t fit, but not is complete trash, like three to the flush, gutshot straight, runner runner straight? Just looking for a general guideline, cause I make these flop decisions on God knows what. Sometimes I bet, sometimes I fold.

I haven´t found any really clear answer to this in neither WLLH or HPFAP.

Thanks.

[CrackerZack]

[ QUOTE ]
Should you bet/call/raise on the flop with hands like three to the flush, gutshot straight, runner runner straight?

[/ QUOTE ]

Frequently no, but this is overly simplified as it doesn't accurately portray the stregth of your hand. Each of these things individually isn't very strong but if you have a mediocre hand, they add about 1.5 outs which can swing a fold to a call, etc.

[sublime]

Vauge answer, but it depends on pot odds, your postion, where/if there was a bet preflop etc.

I guess if you are not sure of any of these things than fit/fold will suit you fine.

ALSO:

Gutshot: 4 outs
Runners : Seems debateable, but I like to use it as 1-1.5 outs.

[Spyder]

The way I look at it is this:

1) If I have at least second pair and back-door flush or straight, I'll check/call.

2) If I have a back-door flush AND a back-door straight, I'll check/call.

3) If I have an Ace to a back-door flush and any pair, I'll check/call.

4) If I have two overcards and a back-door flush or straight, I'll check & call.

In all cases, except #2, if I'm last to act and it's checked to me, I'll bet. I'll take the free card for #2, otherwise, I don't want anyone else to get a free card.

Spyder

[LetsRock]

As previously suggested, there's a bit more to consider.

What cards are you holding that make the backdoor draws? IF they're over cards (that possibly add a few more outs for you), then continuing on with the hand becomes more plausible. If they're 65 - JT type hands then it's less attractive (to me anyway) to keep fishing. Will your cards fit in at the top end of the backdoor straight? Obviously more enticing that if they are the botom end.

How many are still in the hand? If there's a lot of people, you may be getting reasonably close to correct odds to continue. If there's few, it's probably not worth continuing (unless you're going to try to but the pot).

How aggressive is the table? If you KNOW it's only going to be one bet, it may be worth continuing. If there's bound to be a raise, get out.


All of the above conditions add/subtract to the viability of seeing the turn. It's pretty rare for me to continue on only a backdoor flush or only a backdoor straight. If I have a pair to go along with it or an ace of the flush draw, it becomes more playable, but it's just not an automatic move - it just depends on the situation.

[Ed Miller]

My opinion is that the words "fit or fold" represent advice that is oversimplified and wrong so often that it invalidates the entire concept.

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Spyder,

You need to work on your flop play a lot, and the reasoning behind your decisions in general.

GoT

[twang]

[ QUOTE ]
My opinion is that the words "fit or fold" represent advice that is oversimplified and wrong so often that it invalidates the entire concept.

[/ QUOTE ]

That´s what I suspected. I guess I have to work more on my situational judgements instead of trying to find general guidelines.

Thanks everyone for replying.

[Spyder]

Hey, GoT...shoot me an e-mail and tell me more about it. I'm trying to cut down on my chasing and I've always thought that this was a good place to start. I've always thought that a hand with reasonable potential (ie, at least two ways) to become a best hand is worth a small bet...usually. I could be wrong /images/graemlins/smile.gif

By the way, in a tourney, I never 'develop' a draw, I just muck when the flop misses unless I'm trying to buy the pot.

Spyder
scorpyon@cox-internet.com