20-40 Taj: Monster Pot That's Haunted Me For Days....Advice?

[Jeffage]

Playing 20-40 at Taj on Sunday at 10:30 am. I'm one of maybe 3 players that has slept and the game is out of control wild and aggressive. Very loose. Anyway, I'm in the BB with 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gif. A tight, solid UTG player raises. 3 people coldcall to an asian player (he's a 20-40 regular who constantly plays loose and aggressive...all Taj midlimit regulars would know him). He 3-bets. 2 more people coldcall. The SB calls. I call. Yes, we can argue this preflop call. I am aware that it is marginal or even bad. But it looks like I'm gonna get 8 way action for 3 (or maybe 4) bets...this is the pot of the weekend and I feel I can play. Comments (feel free to flame, but I think the postflop play of this hand is very interesting...so let's try not to get too sidetracked). Tight player 4-bets and everyone calls.

Flop comes J /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif4 /images/graemlins/club.gif giving me 13 outs twice assuming a club is good. I check, tight player bets, everyone calls. I raise. He reraises. Three players drop, others call, I call. $1000 in the pot. The turn is the ugly J /images/graemlins/heart.gif. I check, tight player checks (wierd), checked to weak tight but somewhat passive older player who bets. Kid to my right calls. I call. Now the tight player checkraises out of left field. I had put him on AA or KK but this seems bizarre on the turn b/c he must know someone has a Jack. Could he have gotten jiggy with something like AJs or KJs or even 44 preflop. Folded back to the tight older player. He makes it $120. The kid to my right calls $80 cold and quickly. It's 80 to me. Easy fold or call in this swelled pot even though you might be drawing dead to 4's full or 3's full? Also, the kid could be on higher clubs calling all the action. All comments on the hand in general appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeff

[HappySushi]

Everybody here writes so much trouble. I fold 75clubs unless crazy. But no crazy hand here?

So much trouble with JJ down the middle. I dont know what to do. This never happen to me.

Happysushi

[afish]

I think this is an easy fold preflop. You are not getting implied odds, and you are going to pay dearly to see a good draw to the river.

Flop: I agree with your play.

Turn: I think its marginal. When its marginal, I call.

[Ulysses]

Was the river 6d?

[Steve Giufre]

I used to plkay in that game quite a bit before I moved to CA, and when the line-up is right, it's one of the most wildly aggresive games in the country. It certainly looks like you might be drawing dead here, but who knows. UTG does not have you in bad shape, and the old man probably has a big jack. The tight kid who called 80 cold scares me, it looks like he might also have a club draw, but with all that action, he could be trying spike a two outer, who knows.

That 20-40 is bingo game, it's not poker. I've seen it 7 or 8 ways for three bets before the flop every hand for two hours. I know you didnt post this hand to debate the preflop call, but you should not be gambling with that hand. You lose the ability to outplay your oppenents post flop when he pots get this big. Everytime you flop a draw you are forced to see the river because of the size of the pot. You should only be playing your very best starting hands in hopefully good position. Your variance is going to be huge if you start gambling with suited connectors and limping in with small pairs because you know it is going to be mulitway action. I've read a few of your posts, and I know you're a player, but your probably taking the wrong approach to beating that game if you are gambling with that hand in that spot.

[AJo Go All In]

you posted this in the wrong forum. it should be in micro-limits. i know the numbers are bigger, but you have that kind of attitude. at this level your game will suffer given your clearly results-oriented midnset.

[Jeffage]

I folded the turn. I just thought the combinaton of potentially drawing dead to a boat, the coldcaller having bigger clubs, it could get made 160 etc were too much to play against. The checkraiser just called the 3-bet. River comes the 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif and I don't even want to see the showdown. 1st player checks, old man bets, asian calls, 1st player calls. Old man turns over AJ and everyone thinks its good. Then the asian kid turns over 75o to rake the pot with a straight. Ouch....

Jeff

[ACPlayer]

Hi jeff
Just a small point on the flop you have 12 outs twice not 13 and that assumes that no one flopped a set.

Another point, in wild games your ability to outplay opponents becomes rarer, sticking to the math is best, IMO.

My view: fold preflop and probably on the turn (as you did) though if I had called preflop I was on severe tilt and then would probably just call all the way /images/graemlins/shocked.gif