calling 3 bets cold on the river without the nuts??

[legend42]

This rather unusual predicament occurred during a nice loose, moderately aggressive live 20-40 game. Two loose limpers from middle position, a truly awful player in the CO limps, and I decide to raise with KJs on the button. SB folds, BB calls, as do the 3 limpers.

Flop comes Q 9 6 rainbow (one of my suit). Checked to me, and I bet valiantly. Three calls, one fold.

Turn is the delicious ten of the fourth suit. Checked to me again. These guys are usually more aggressive, but who am I to complain after I just hit a gutshot? I fleetingly consider checking the nuts behind here, but quickly dispense with that idea, and bet again. I’m hoping they read my genuine hesitancy as genuine hesitancy. No such luck. But all three do call again.

Well, at least I know I'm still good if the board pairs, as they certainly would have spoke up here with any 2 pair- except for the goofy CO, who might be check-calling with anything from top set to 75o, but he won‘t bet anyway if he hits, so no worries. And since there are no flush draws out, about the only card I really don't want to see is...you guessed it...a king.

If you read the post title, the ending is as spoiled for you as it was for me. The BB jumps out of his seat like it's Christmas morning, and bets out. I slump in my seat. Then the MP raises. My slump deepens. And just to put the cherry on top of this suddenly foul-tasting sundae, the CO (who hasn't bet or raised more than twice all night) stares at the board like a biblical scholar studying the Dead Sea Scrolls, and 3-bets!! When the action gets to me, I’m practically parallel to the ceiling.

So, there it is. What to do here? Besides vomit, I mean?

[skp]

Vomit just about covers it.

Bad beat. Fold it.

[Enon]

[ QUOTE ]
stares at the board like a biblical scholar studying the Dead Sea Scrolls, and 3-bets!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Funniest thing I've read on here hands down /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SossMan]

Try not to get your vommit on the fish. This tends to make them want to go home.

[DcifrThs]

so the board is Q9xTK and you put the 3bettor on exactly AJ.i mean i guess it does make sense given the action, and it is 120 to you cold...tough spot to be in but i think i have to agree with you here. UNLESS the dead sea scholar thinks his jack is good and you've just cost yourself 1/2 a pot. but the dead sea scholar certainly was described as "an awful player." HE's the one we're worried about here since its fairly obvious lots of people have a jack lol.

i'd say there are 4 jacks out there and all of'em are in the people's hands on the river....the quesion is, "are those jacks accompanied by an ace in any of their hands?"

it jsut seems crazy to fold the 2nd nuts on the river, but in this situation i might just have to agree with you skp.

fold it. take 5, puke in the mens room (or little boys room) and get back in it. would this awful player 3bet a live bet, and an excited raise without the nuts?

-Barron

[TJSWAN]

I would only vomit if someone did not table AJ for the nuts.
They were open ended on the turn /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif.


Tim

[skp]

It's 120 cold and the best you can probably do is split the pot 3 ways (maybe even 4). There is just too high a chance that someone has the nuts. Easy - albeit puke inducing - fold.

[legend42]

[ QUOTE ]
It's 120 cold and the best you can probably do is split the pot 3 ways (maybe even 4). There is just too high a chance that someone has the nuts. Easy - albeit puke inducing - fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was easy, but not quite a no-brainer. If anybody else had 3-bet, I would have folded without a second thought. But I'd seen this guy make so many awful plays that I had to meditate for a few seconds. Still, it was basically an even money proposition (assuming a 4-way split, which seemed highly likely), and the way the BB reacted- he didn't look like he hit an open-ender, he looked like he hit his dream card- plus the time it took for the CO to study the board and still 3-bet made me think one of them had AJ (which could very possibly in the MP's hand, also). Plus, I wasn't even closing the action.

So I muck, temporarily thankful that at least I wasn't trapped in between the bettor and raisers. Naturally, the BB and MP just call. BB turns over J9, MP has JT, and the CO fish turns over...wait for it....J8. That's right, he made the Q-high straight on the turn and presumably didn't even realize it; he was probably trying to hit his jack. Did I mention he was bad?

There was one token benefit. The BB noticed me still sickering in befuddlement as the next hand was being dealt. He asked me what I folded, and I told him pocket queens (for top set). He laughed and tossed me a dollar chip (I think it was the odd chip from the chop), saying "bad beat". I muttered, "you don't know the half of it."

I still think the fold was right.

[DiamondDave]

[ QUOTE ]
What to do here? Besides vomit, I mean?


[/ QUOTE ]

Take the free card on the turn. You aren't going to win this one without showing down the best hand.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
So, there it is. What to do here? Besides vomit, I mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd faint. equivalent to an online time-out all-in. but except, i'd faint for real.

when i wake up (someone slaps me silly), and find out that the pot is chopped 3 ways and i got sht, i'd faint again.

when i wake up again (someone pours cold water on my face), and find out that i am stuck 300 and could have been even or ahead had i won that pot, i'd throw my computer out of the window... if there is no computer or window, i'd go home and maybe faint on the road driving...

sorry for the beat, it's truly horrific.

Kenny

[nykenny]

the fold was of course right.

[Senor Choppy]

After the turn there are 22.5 small bets in the pot. When the action gets to you it's 6 cold, with 2 more possible. If you assume everyone calls after you act, the pot will be 40.5 small bets, and you can win 10.125 by calling. If you assume one guy caps, the pot will be 46.5 and it cost you 8 to win 11.625.

If anyone in the pot might have something other than a jack, your odds improve dramatically. If the 3 bettor isn't as bad as you think, your odds go down significantly as well.

I don't think this is as easy a fold as everyone makes it out to be. Someone had to limp with AJ preflop AND call a Q96 board on the flop for you to be beat here.

Given what you said about the 3-bettor, I might even cap if the original bettor was tight enough. Online I would call, live it depends. I'd be watching the first two players to see if either were reaching for $20 or had looks of disgust on their faces. If either still looks pleased with the situation, that would probably swing my decision to a fold, but usually both have a disinterested look by this point and just want to put in the extra $20 or $40, let the dealer split the pot up, and move on to the next hand.