33 with a crowd

[Mano]

I have played little NLHE other than tournies, so I thought I would get my feet wet on a $25 Party table. Here is a hand which I was not sure what to do on the flop:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (10 handed)

CO ($13)
Button ($24.35)
SB ($26.75)
Hero ($30.45)
UTG ($25.25)
UTG+1 ($72.24)
UTG+2 ($19.50)
MP1 ($29.90)
MP2 ($44.30)
MP3 ($27.70)

No real player specific reads. Entire table seems very loose passive.

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG raises to $2, UTG+1 calls $2, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $2, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $2, CO (poster) calls $1.50, Button calls $2, SB folds, Hero calls $1.50.

I assume I am getting good enough odds to flop my set here. Anyone fold?

Flop: ($14.25) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(7 players) </font>


What is my play? I think I have the best hand, but with this many callers I figure a few probably have pocket pairs. I think if one calls, the rest will lay down (I think it is somewhat likely a pair will call). Do I bet big, and either win what's in the pot or get it heads up or check with the intention of raising (or re-evaluating on exessive action).

[Ben]

Definitely a call PF. You have lots of limpers and a PF raise means you're more likely to get paid off by someone with big overcards when you hit your trips. I always call reasonable raises with any pocket-pair preflop--I double up quite frequently with that play.

As far as post-flop, I'd definitely check here. With that many limpers and a raise before the flop, it'll definitely be bet, and possibly even raised big before it gets back to you. Once it's back to you you can decide to reraise or just call. If it was reraised strongly and you think you'll get callers with a push, go for it. I might be tempted to call and get some more cash in on the turn before pushing, but I think it's close.

.b

[Daann]

Easy call preflop. On the flop, this is a prime opportunity for a check raise. You have perfect position relative to the raiser, who will hopefully bet, so you see what the entire table gets up (probably call, call, call) to before you act.

[NaobisDad]

There are no obvious flush draws on this board. Nor do you have to actively worry about a straight here. So, other than a higher set you have little to worry about for the moment.

Still, I have a tendency not to smooth call with bottom set. Bad experience in the past. I agree that it's close because of reasons above. Had there been draws, then it would be an easy (check)raise.

Ben is this along the lines of what you were thinking also?

[Yardbird]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is BB with 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG raises to $2, UTG+1 calls $2, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $2, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $2, CO (poster) calls $1.50, Button calls $2, SB folds, Hero calls $1.50.

I assume I am getting good enough odds to flop my set here. <font color="green"> Right on. /images/graemlins/cool.gif </font>
Anyone fold? <font color="green"> Nope. </font>

Flop: ($14.25) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(7 players) </font>


What is my play? I think I have the best hand, but with this many callers I figure a few probably have pocket pairs. I think if one calls, the rest will lay down (I think it is somewhat likely a pair will call). Do I bet big, and either win what's in the pot or get it heads up or check with the intention of raising (or re-evaluating on exessive action).

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="green"> I'd say play it like you have pocket-rockets with the same flop, and you'll get lots of callers, including any players with Aces; or, make a more moderate bet to reel them in---just make sure you're busting the odds for you competition to fill in or up. I'd lead out with a $5+ bet to do the trick. Enough to make them think you're trying to steal it, but not enough to make your holdings obvious.</font>

[tdomeski]

check then raise pot once UTG pots the flop and three calles come along. . .

[MVicuna]

Hi,

I think 7 handed to the flop in a full game at $.5BB you need to be worried about the str8 and the over sets.

Unless the PF raiser is a complete maniac/idiot, he's done with his hand with 6 callers he's not calling a raise if even betting into this pot.

Be Very Very carefull about the number of people who stay in if you do go for the CR with bottom set on a board with 347. Even the most dim player knows some one could have flopped the str8.

I personally wouldn't slow play my set here. There is no flush draw to semi-bluff at this pot and its to connected for a naked bluff with 7 players. I'd fully expect it to be checked around even if someone has another set or 56. I'd just bet out and see where I stand. If there is more then 1 caller I'm not very happy, if there are raises I'm pushing in and hoping for the best.

Unless my opps are on naked bluffs going to showdowns with bottom set on this connected board is a crap shoot.

MarkV.

[Daann]

You are not slowplaying it because it is pretty likely to get bet on the flop. There are lots of things that people can bet/call your check raise here which you beat: overpair, two pair, top pair, an overcard. Someone will probably bet something if the preflop raiser doesn't (even if it is just minimum). If your stacks were far deeper then I might think about taking this stance, but at the end of the day, you are risking 60BB with what is in most cases a lock on the flop.

One other thing, it also doesn't matter if, after the preflop bettor bets the flop, he folds when you checkraise him, it is for the purpose of building up the pot when your hand is strongest.

[MVicuna]

Hi,

My point about the PF raiser is he's likely one of the few hands we actually beat who might bet/call.

I guess I'm a lot weak-tighter then I think I am, as bottom set with 7 to the flop I'm not thrilled about anyone other then the PF raiser putting money into this pot.

Thanks,
MarkV.

[bunky9590]

UTG will most certainly bet this flop. Check and let him do it. Pick up a couple callers and push all in. A pot raise is going to commit 75% of your stack anyway so you might as well push. You dont want to be thinking about your hand much on the turn, and if they're gonna call a pot raise, they'll call all in as well.

[Yardbird]

[Ben]

Yep /images/graemlins/smile.gif

.b

[bunky9590]

Dude, thats pretty freaking weak. Worried about the str8 in a raised pot? from and UTG raise?

There are no monsters under your bed.

Let UTG bet this flop with his big pair/AK, he raised preflop let him bet it.

I normally lead into the raiser here in a deeper stack game, but you position relative to the raiser is perfect for trapping players for a monster pot with a check raise.

Given the way this hand shook down, I would check raise here and trap the field into calling the UTG bet on the flop with a subsequent all in push on the flop as a check raise. You wanna call now? Let them call.

[Daann]

Fair play, I would definitely agree with you if this was a tougher game with deeper money as those limpers are most likely only going to commit a serious portion of their stack with something that beats you.

However, this is not a tough game... So you will get called/raised by hands much weaker than yours. You have to take in account the table conditions when deciding your plan of action.

[Brian462]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I'm a lot weak-tighter then I think I am, as bottom set with 7 to the flop I'm not thrilled about anyone other then the PF raiser putting money into this pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that the flop is 7 high and the game is the lowest buy in on party means you will get almost unlimited action from any pocket pair 8-A's and maybe even some of the lower ones. You can also throw in A7, K7, etc(yes they will be in this pot, especially if they are sOOted). If the PF raiser has AK or similar hand you can be almost sure that he will take a good stab at this pot since he is likely assuming his A or K is good.

I think I would check(and then likely raise) with the intention of getting as much money into the pot as possible. If someone flopped an overset you are going broke, that's just a simple fact. If someone flopped a straight then you have a really good draw against them and with even 1 other caller(and maybe without) are getting odds to go for it. In all likelyhood you have the best hand and have most others drawing dead or to between 2-6 outs.

[MVicuna]

Hi,

I'm not worried if I don't get a lot of action, I'm worried *if* I do. I'm also not worried enough to fold or stop betting it, but I'm worried enough to not be the first one to put all my chips in. I'll call all-in, but I won't push all in unless the pot-size vs my stack size dictates it.

At the $.5BB level I only have this in the back of my mind. The tougher games I'm always asking my self why did the cold caller of the PF raise raise continue to put chips into a raggy flop like this.

MarkV.