AQs - Limp or Automatic Raise?

[chrisdhal]

I recently moved up to 1/2 and am still coming to grips with raises that actually mean something. Therefore I am wondering about a hand like AQs. Most of the other people I have talked to say that they limp with it, or will re-raise but will not raise outright with it. The reasoning is that it's easy to drop on the flop if you don't hit it. Others have said it's powerful and will always raise with it.

I've played it both ways, but am wondering what the general feeling is. The following hand pretty much did it for me last night and got me thinking about it:


Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $1.
UTG folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players) </font>
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls, MP2 folds, CO folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 13.50 BB, between SB and Hero.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by SB (13.50 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB shows 6c 8s (full house, sixes full of eights).
Hero shows Ad Qd (flush, ace high).
Outcome: SB wins 13.50 BB. </font>

I'm also not sure my turn play was good (in general, this time it worked out, but long term...). This was SB's 2nd hand and I had no notes on him. Thanks for any help.

[B Dids]

Autoraise, not even close.

[SofaCoach]

There are many more experienced players here than me and I am curious to read their responses. For my part, I am having a hard time thinking of a situation where I wouldn't raise an unraised pot with AQs. At first I thought "maybe not from the linds with numerous limpers" because AQ doesn't play as well against several opponents (or so I've read). But I would still raise because most, if not all, have weaker hands than me and I want them to pay more.

I guess the only time I wouldn't raise PF with AQs is if a maniac was behind me and I could count on him to raise so I could limp re-raise.

[SpaceAce]

Who is advising you to three-bet AQ but not raise it it?

SpaceAce

[illunious]

Raise preflop, you should also be happy when you have the opportunity to raise AQo.

I raise the flop here, but usually I had already raised preflop. In this situation, calling and hoping MP2 and CO call along too may be fine.

The turn and river are very hard to analyze because by this time I would have been a raise station.

[illunious]

[ QUOTE ]
Who is advising you to three-bet AQ but not raise it it?

[/ QUOTE ]

The most important piece of advice I can give you is to never listen to a single poker suggestion from this guy again.

It is not logical, maybe you misinterpreted it?

[tech]

Everyone else has commented on your preflop question, so let me comment on your turn question. You HAVE to raise that turn with the nut flush. You can't hope for much better, except for the paired board. If he reraises, then you might start to think boat. But until then you have to believe you have the best hand.

[chrisdhal]

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Like I said, I got lucky this time, but it was a bad call. Overall I was lucky I didn't lose more, but I shouldn't have been there in the first place. I know I wouldn't have completed an 86o SB, much less with a raise in front of me, but this was Party, so who knows if this guy would have called a raise, but I would have to figure I had the best at that point.

[chrisdhal]

Ya, probably. It was an IM while I was at work today. I was busy, and he's a good player, so I'm guessing I misread it.

[illunious]

I also thought you would be good on the river, thinking SB is a lower flush. You should not wait until the river to bring out the guns though, you had a great hand on every street.

[MicroBob]

raise PF.
raise the flop.
raise the turn.

get aggressive.

i have always open-raised PF with AQs....

what to do if it's already been raised is a different matter....but i will usually re-raise.

[chrisdhal]

[ QUOTE ]

get aggressive.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, this is one of the things I am coming to realize. While there is plenty of bad play at 1/2 (uh, like this particular hand /images/graemlins/smile.gif ) there is actually some semblance of "real" poker in the sense that aggression is semi-respected. I'm still learning aggression, thanks for the reinforcement on this /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[chrisdhal]

[ QUOTE ]
It is not logical, maybe you misinterpreted it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Doh! I did misread it. I found the IM log and he said he'd either limp or re-raise, but not just call the 2nd bet.

[illunious]

[ QUOTE ]
I found the IM log and he said he'd either limp or re-raise, but not just call the 2nd bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Limping with AQs is not really an option in a normal game. What "2nd bet" are you refering to?

[illunious]

Please post the chat log.

[Brain]

i would think he means not cold-call the 2 bets, but re-raise and make it 3.

[illunious]

[ QUOTE ]
i would think he means not cold-call the 2 bets, but re-raise and make it 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't call 2 bets preflop, he limped. It sounds like the suggestion was to limp-reraise AQs preflop? I'm confused /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[chrisdhal]

Yep. Sorry, I didn't state that very clearly. Maybe that's still not the optimal advice though, but that's what I meant to say.