I really dislike the check-raise...but...?

[CardCuda]

As I watched this hand unfold, (while cursing under my lips at all the calling station, over-card chasing, lone A hoping to catch, rag players etc).... and hoping and praying that I don't get sucked-out on and also at the same time just happy to be at this incredibly passive soft game, the question arose....

<font color="blue">Should I have check raised here? on the flop or the turn? </font>

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(8 players) </font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (11.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(7 players) </font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, UTG calls.

River: (17.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(6 players) </font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 21.75 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 21.75 BB, between Hero, MP2, CO and Button.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by Hero (21.75 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero shows Js Jh (two pair, jacks and fours).
MP2 shows Qc 3s (two pair, fours and threes).
CO shows 8s Ts (two pair, tens and fours).
Button shows Ac 3c (two pair, fours and threes).
Outcome: Hero wins 21.75 BB. </font>

[Chris Daddy Cool]

HEPFAP on checkraising:

p.78 "A good guideline to follow is to consider check-raising if its unlikely that an overcard can hurt you.... If your top pair is lower than queens, it is more dangerous to try for a checkraise since a free card can easily beat you."

But also...

p.79
"On the other hand, if you flop top pair in a large multiway pot, it still may be correct to check-raise, even if you are afraid of an overcard, esp. if you are in an early position. This is because the pot is now so largge that if you bet, you can expect a lot of callers anyway. Consequently, in an effort to thin the field, it may be neccessary to risk the dreaded free card."

I tend to checkraise in this spot to isolate/knock out players as HEPFAP suggests, not to build up my pot. That's just an added bonus if I happen to win. The key thing here is now that the pot is so large you have to do everything you can to win that pot, even if it means giving up some bets here or there.

[illunious]

I really don't think you should try to checkraise at all.

I don't like checkraising flops after raising preflop unless someone 3-bet preflop. Checkraising the turn could have been a disaster.

I think you played the hand fine.

[illunious]

Also, congrats on your table selection. I love the Paradise software, maybe I will deposit and try the games there. Hands like this are starting to become rare at Party .5/1.

[CardCuda]

This is becoming the norm at Paradise now. /images/graemlins/grin.gif (Might just be the promo's they're running).

Damn I waited too long cause I was gonna go to Party. /images/graemlins/frown.gif