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View Full Version : Poker in Milwaukee - First experience (long)


BradleyT
04-27-2004, 02:06 PM
Potowatomi opened up their poker room yesterday at noon. They said people were waiting at 8am to get inside. The room has 10 tables but they only had enough toke boxes to run 5 tables. How incompetent is that?

So I get off work at 5pm and decide to head there on my way home. Traffic was bad so I didn't get there until about 5:40. I had my $10 bonus play and a $100 slot ticket to turn in. Did that and got up to the poker room at 6pm.

It was quite packed. They have a whiteboard they use for signups. When looking at the board I thought they must be forgetting to erase names of players who have been seated - I was wrong. The $2-$4 HE list had about 65 names on it. I figured it might be an hour or two wait. The $1-$5 stud list only had 15 names so I also got on that. The two other games were $5-$10 (two tables) and $20-$40. Although I've never played $5-$10 I'm going to start. That list was going at the fastest rate since they had two tables.

After you get on the list they give you a pager which will beep and glow red when they page you. Standard 5 minutes to get back to the poker room after you're paged - better hope you're not waiting for a slot fill or jackpot payout! Even though the pagers are brand new and supposedly work anywhere in the casino, many of them were brought back up while I was waiting because people said they were giving the "out of range" signal. Since 5 of the tables aren't running at least there's somewhere to sit.

I grab a seat and hear a lady that says she's been on the 7 stud list since 3:00pm and she's still like 5th to go - and this is at 7pm now. But I figure many of those players can't still be waiting - I was wrong. It's as if these people have never played poker or are gambling addicts or something. Waiting 5-6 hours to play a $4 rake $1-$5 stud game. Haven't they ever heard of online poker?? The lady is also unhappy because she blew $200 downstairs on blackjack while waiting for her seat. Now she's only got $50 for poker.

After an hour or two of talking with people I watch some of the $5-$10 action. Players calling with 56o in MP, catching bottom pair and staying till the river. People playing A7o and K9o in EP and paying off all the way. Reminds me of Party when they first started advertising on WPT.

After two hours and only about 5 people getting called for both of my games combined I decide to take a walk. Go and blow $15 on nickel slots in an hour and figure hey maybe this pager isn't working - I better go and check out where I'm at on the list. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count what position I am on the list so I sit back down and chat with some more players. One guy thinks only "pros" can win at poker - I used to think that too until 5 years ago when I found this website. I don't try to convince him otherwise though or tell him about this site - why give my enemy a gun when they're fighting with a toothpick?

The $20-$40 list is by far the shortest and fastest moving. Many college kids go up and get on that list since its the fastest game to get into. I have to believe they have absolutely no idea what kind of BR is needed to sit down in that game. They think they can take a shot with $300 and actually win? Same thing with the $5-10 game. People sitting in with $50. Hello??? You can easily be all in on one single hand before it even gets to the river.

Fast forward now to 10:30pm. Woohoo I'm now 7th on the stud list and 21st on the HE list. People there from 2-4pm are just now getting called. Being the working man that I am, before I left work I told myself I was only going to play until midnight - how wrong I was.

I decide to hand in my pager and tell the guy I hear PokerStars calling my name. All that waiting and didn't even get to play! They are supposed to be getting the additional toke boxes today so that should help somewhat.

They also said they'll be starting omaha hi/lo and maybe some mixed games if there's interest. From what I saw, dealers were newbies and slow and didn't know a lot of rules (like one guy had the manager - no chip runners yet - get him a stack and the dealer didn't know he could play with his $100 behind). They also aren't allowing call-ins which is a bummer. Hours are 9am-5am but soon to be 24 hours once they get things going.

I'll be going back Wednesday after work. Hopefully they'll have things running a bit more smoothly and I'll be able to actually play.

Andy B
04-27-2004, 03:01 PM
Gambling addicts?? In a casino??

It's nice to be adequately bankrolled for a game, but given a choice between taking $300 into what is more than likely a super-juicy $20/40 game and not playing at all, I'm gambling. I have taken my last $40 and run it up over $520 at Canterbury Park, and I've had a few other similar scores where I started with a less-than-optimal buy-in.

If they start spreading a decent-sized mixed game, I just might have to make a trip out there.

Don't the dealers have shirt pockets?

BradleyT
04-27-2004, 04:32 PM
I'm pretty sure they do split tokes anyway. They must seperate poker dealer tips from the other dealers tips as I heard that many blackjack dealers didn't want to deal poker since they didn't know how the tips would be.

I'll post back again after I get to play and then post again in a few more weeks after they've had things running for a while and get their operation smoothed out.

Also no word on tournaments yet.

benping16
04-27-2004, 05:08 PM
Whats the rake at 20-40?

Toonces
04-27-2004, 07:26 PM
Thanks for the report...I hope to be there soon.

Andy B
04-27-2004, 07:37 PM
If the dealers pool their tokes, that's horrible. They pool their tips at Foxwoods, and the dealing there is for the most part atrocious. The dealers at Canterbury are generally pretty good, and having them keep their own tokes is a strong incentive for them to not suck, in my opinion. On the other hand, Foxwoods' policy saves me money, since I refuse to tip when I play there. Anyway, I'm guessing that those blackjack dealers would probably be better off in the poker room, but I could be off-base.

Without ever having worked in a casino, my understanding is that poker tips are better overall, and they're certainly more consistent, since there's a toke essentially every hand. Canterbury has a back room which has blackjack with an "ante" and other aberrations, and most of the dealers make an effort to move from there to the poker room.

I have given up on tournaments for about the tenth time. I find it wildly unlikely that a ten-table room is going to come up with a tournament that's worth driving five hours each way for.

Cooling Heels
04-27-2004, 08:32 PM
At the St Croix Casino, also in Wisconsin, the tips go
into a pool shared among poker dealers, blackjack dealers,
floormen, and who knows who. The dealers there are very
slow and the room suffers high turnover.

I wonder why?

Andy B
04-27-2004, 09:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
... and the room suffers high turnover.


I wonder why?


[/ QUOTE ]

Because anyone with a few months experience can get a job at Canterbury.

chrisdhal
04-28-2004, 12:36 AM
Wow, I thought the lines were long on Friday/Saturday at Canterbury, but this is crazy!

I'm going to be in Milwaukee in early August and was excited to hear about this opening up. If the lines don't go down I guess I'll make sure to bring my laptop and just play online in the hotel /images/graemlins/smile.gif

BradleyT
04-28-2004, 01:49 AM
I got to play tonight. The dealers CARRY their toke boxes with them from table to table! I've never seen that before.

I guess a shirt pocket is too small. At my $2-$4 table tonight they were averaging about $20 an hour in tokes - because most still deal pretty slow.

BradleyT
04-28-2004, 01:50 AM
$4 max on all games.

BradleyT
04-28-2004, 02:07 AM
Got there at 5:40 today and went on the list for $2-$4 HE. Took about an hour and 30 minutes to get my seat tonight since they had one more table going for a total of 6, but still shy of the 10 tables they're planning on having running. They had three $2-$4 tables going since that's the most popular limit at the moment.

Extremely loose play at this limit. Got aces cracked twice they held up once. Didn't get KK, QQ, JJ, TT or AKs or AQs in the 4 hours I played. Hit sets on turn with 44 and 88 with 6-7 seeing the flop for some good sized pots. AKo dominated weak aces in another nice sized pot.

Ended the night 24BB up. If you have a players card they rate you at $1/hr no matter what limit you play so that's not too bad.

They hope to have all ten tables running by the weekend. I will be moving up to $5-$10 probably in the next week or two.

They're still pretty disorganized but much better than their first night.

Andy B
04-28-2004, 01:40 PM
At Canterbury, the dealers carry their toke boxes with them from table to table. This is a sign that they keep their own tokes, and a good sign at that.

gonores
04-28-2004, 02:34 PM
Just got back from a quick 2 hour afternoon session there. Some quick thoughts...

Management: Already better managed that Ho Chunk. From what I saw, seats filled rather quickly. I love the $4 max rake. I did not see any disputes, so I saw no dispute resolutions. I got a seat immediately, but it is clear that place is either going to have to expand or force most people to wait for hours out in the bingo hall or something.

Dealers: On the slow side, but refreshingly competent. One of them quickly identified a 3 way split when everyone had a ten on a board of T535A. They look younger and more alert than the Ho Chunk dealers. Give them time, and they will better than what midwesterners are used to.

The games: I only sat in the 10/20 game HoldEm game. The average age at the table was easily 10-15 years younger than you will find at Ho Chunk. Players were pretty terrible overall. 2 rocks (unfortunately on my right), 6 loose players, with aggression ranging from very passive to moderately aggressive. Very readable.

My first hand there. I was dealt JTs in the BB. Limp, raise, cold call, I call, limper calls. Flop came J98r, I check-raised the original raiser, wound up making a boat and winning an 11BB pot. Nothing special, but seconds later, lo and behold, the stranger in the 9 seat looks over at me and asks, "you're Doug, right?" "yeah" "you post at 2+2, right?" "wtf?" Turns out the guy is a forum member (name withheld) and the second youngest guy (I was the youngest) in the game. He cold-pegged me as a 2+2er from hand 1....my reputation precedes me. Unfortunately, I did not see him get into any hands of note, other than when his AK or AA (I think) got cracked by runner-runner two pair, so I can't really comment other than that he did not get out of line at all and played with a good deal of aggression. All around good guy.

I got chewed out by a couple of the older players for talking too much. Whoopdeefuckingdo.

It sounds like $20/$40 is going to be as high as they go for now. If that game spreads consistently, I'll be there often, despite my move from right across the street to Madison.

BradleyT
04-28-2004, 03:28 PM
Today is the first day they've had $10-$20 so I'm assuming they must have opened up a few more tables.

Speaking of resolving disputes...last night at the $1-5 stud game I guess some guy made a string bet. It was one of those...hands in motion with no delay grabbing more chips things. Well anyway you got three 70 year old (no lie) guys yelling and screaming at the top of their lungs over a $5 bet. This goes on for a while and then one of the supervisors (young kid with glasses, usually does board signups) tells the loudest guy to just calm down or he's out of there. The supervisor gives him a second warning and the guy is one of those that just can't let it go. So security comes in and just stares at the guy and that pretty much shuts him up.

Pretty lenient IMO as this guy was really loud and causing quite a stir. Not even over a pot shoved to the wrong person or someone cheating, but just over what looked like it might have been a string bet for 5 lousy dollars. And I don't even think THAT guy was in the hand lol. I woulda kicked him out after the first warning.


Nice report. Maybe I'll see you there sometime.

jumpthru
04-29-2004, 01:41 AM
At the local casino, poker dealers carry there toke boxes with them and keep there own tips, while table game dealers split tips...

Anyways, I am really confused. Is dealing poker, basically one of the most lucrative jobs available? From my calculations, you deal 30 hands an hour if your good, with at LEAST a dollar a hand tip, somtimes 2-4 dollars depending on how big the pot is (this is at 4/8), PLUS minimum wage.

Thats almost $40 an hour...am I missing something? Or should everyone be trying to become poker dealers...

Nate

PS, I understand you want rocks on your left so you can bet into them and get them to fold...but dont you also want them on your right so you know if they bet, you get out of the way??

Andy B
04-29-2004, 02:03 AM
Dealers also take half-hour breaks during which they make no tips. During graveyard, they will often deal for half-an-hour, break for half-an-hour, deal for half-an-hour, break for half-an-hour, etc. Stud and Omaha yield fewer and smaller tips. Also, if there's a tournament, their tips go way down. At Canterbury, there is a 10% "brush" on all dealer tips, which gets shared with chip runners, floor guys, etc. There is also very little room for advancement. Those guys will probably be making about the same money in ten years that they are now, and the cost of living isn't very likely to stay the same.

How often is a tight player going to bet when you also have a hand? Not very often. You want the tighties on your left and the loosies on your right. You want the good players on the other table, or failing that, across from you.

jumpthru
04-29-2004, 02:36 AM
Maybe I am young and $40 an hour isn't enough to live off...

But why do you need to advance when your making $40 an hour? Thats a good wage!! Not only that they take in huge tips when they deal jack pot hands etc.

$40 an hour not enough for you?
[ QUOTE ]
Dealers also take half-hour breaks during which they make no tips. During graveyard, they will often deal for half-an-hour, break for half-an-hour, deal for half-an-hour, break for half-an-hour, etc. Stud and Omaha yield fewer and smaller tips. Also, if there's a tournament, their tips go way down. At Canterbury, there is a 10% "brush" on all dealer tips, which gets shared with chip runners, floor guys, etc. There is also very little room for advancement. Those guys will probably be making about the same money in ten years that they are now, and the cost of living isn't very likely to stay the same.

How often is a tight player going to bet when you also have a hand? Not very often. You want the tighties on your left and the loosies on your right. You want the good players on the other table, or failing that, across from you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Andy B
04-29-2004, 11:22 AM
I am saying that dealers don't make $40 an hour.

bicyclekick
04-29-2004, 03:24 PM
They're making no less than 25. that's like what almost 50k a year? Not GREAT, but not bad for a transition couple of years in a persons life.

I'd do that before workign retail again/fast food.

Andy B
04-29-2004, 04:12 PM
And I'd take it over what I'm doing right now. Apart from mentioning the lack of opportunity for advancement, I haven't said anything to suggest that these aren't desirable jobs. I'm just saying that dealers don't make $40/hr. Maybe the guys who travel the tournament circuit do. I don't know, nor am I likely to find out.

Phishy McFish
05-04-2004, 05:42 PM
So anyone been going consistently....what's the deal???