Poker Tracker AF excluding pre flop

[Vazh]

I was looking at the way PT calculates aggression factor now that you have the ability to exclude pre flop numbers. I think the way the number is calculated is flawed, but don't know how to prove it so I'm looking for math help. It's also possible that PT's number is valid, but a different way of looking at it than what I expected.

PT's calculation is:
(flop bet % + flop raise % + turn bet % + turn raise % + river bet % + river raise %) / (flop call % + turn call % + river call %)

Flop bet % is calculated as (# flop bets)/(#number of possible flop actions).

Data:
<font color="red"> Street </font> <font color="green"> Possible Actions </font> <font color="blue"> Raise </font> <font color="orange"> Bet </font> <font color="brown"> Call</font> <font color="red"> AF </font>
<font color="red"> Flop <font color="green"> 56 <font color="blue">2(3.57%) <font color="orange">11(19.64%) <font color="brown">13(23.21%) <font color="red">1
<font color="red"> Turn <font color="green"> 43 <font color="blue">1(2.33) <font color="orange">10(23.26) <font color="brown">10(23.26) <font color="red">1.1
<font color="red"> River <font color="green"> 26 <font color="blue">0(0.00) <font color="orange">7(26.92) <font color="brown">10(38.46) <font color="red">.7
</font>
</font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font> </font>
PT calculates overall AF as 0.89 = (3.57+19.64+2.33+23.26+0+26.92)/(23.21+23.26+38.46)

I think the calculation should be 0.94 = (#bets+#raises)/#calls = (28+3)/33

1. Is one of these flat out wrong?
2. Are they both valid just measuring different things?
3. Does it matter? As long as all players are evaluated the same way does the method of measuring matter?

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
1. Is one of these flat out wrong?
2. Are they both valid just measuring different things?
3. Does it matter? As long as all players are evaluated the same way does the method of measuring matter?

[/ QUOTE ]

1) No.
2) Yes. One weighs the streets evenly, one will value individual actions evenly.
3) I don't think it matters.

[sthief09]

either way, the number doesn't tell you much. tighter players tend to have higher aggression ratings than looser players. all the LAGs I play against have AF's around 1. mine is ~2.5. does that mean I'm more aggressive than these LAG idiots? probably not.

[MicroBob]

i am still learning about this whole AGR factor thing.

my numbers fwiw:

PF: 0.76
Flop: 3.17
Turn: 2.87
River: 2.73

Total: 1.64


does this mean i'm not aggressive enough PF??
and maybe too aggressive post-flop??

my VPIP is 18% and my PFR is 8.8% (for all hands)
for hands with 8-10 players my VPIP=17.7, PFR=8.2

so i don't think i'm exactly 'passive' pre-flop.


i've seen various players' AGR numbers tossed around but need to get a better handle on what they mean.

[sthief09]

I think PFR/VP$IP is a better indicator than anything else of your preflop aggression. Extremely aggressive players can have numbers up to .75 in this. I'm slightly above .5. I think anything in the .5 rhealm is probably good for loose games.

As I said before (I think), the AF doesn't really say all that much, and is a stat that should be used more for fun than anything else.

If you think you're too aggressive post-flop, look at my numbers for this month... 1.10/5.51/5.33/2.74, and my PFR is 11 and VP$IP is 19

the reason the preflop one is always so low is because it includes checking in the BB.

[Cosimo]

"LAG" means loose aggressive game. A table might be a LAG, but not a player.

"LAP" means loose aggressive player.

Sorry, like I said, pet peeve. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[sthief09]

I use LAG as Loose-AGgressive /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

not down with the psychology jargon

but at least I don't call a set trips. someone saying that is like nails to a chalkboard for me /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[JohnShaft]

[ QUOTE ]
"LAG" means loose aggressive game. A table might be a LAG, but not a player.

"LAP" means loose aggressive player.

[/ QUOTE ]
Cosimo, I think you'll find pretty much everyone here refers to a Loose-AGgressive player as a LAG. I don't think I've ever heard LAP used before.

LAG sounds better, and can be applied to both players and games.
"So I checkraise this LAG in the Big Blind and he 3-bets"
"I was in this great LAG game last night, capped Preflop half the time"

See, it's multipurpose.