One of those nights (a few bad hands)... [Archive]

View Full Version : One of those nights (a few bad hands)...

The_Eye

04-26-2004, 11:00 AM

...when the hands you fold would have been the nuts, and the keepers go nowhere. Lucked out w/a flush from the BB and not another winner for the rest of the night. AKo was particularly bad last night. Here's a few of the hands that didn't come through for me:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players) 
Hero bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, CO raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players) 
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players) 
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB
Main Pot: 8.25 BB, between CO and Hero. > Pot won by CO (8.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
CO shows Ks Ah (one pair, kings).
Hero shows 6d Kd (one pair, kings).
Outcome: CO wins 8.25 BB. 

I have no idea why I stayed in this, talk about chasing...
-------------------------------

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (8 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (8 players) 
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, SB calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players) 
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (14 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players) 
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB
Main Pot: 17 BB, between Hero, UTG+2 and MP1. > Pot won by MP1 (17 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Ad 3d (three of a kind, aces).
UTG+2 shows Kc Td (two pair, aces and kings).
MP1 shows Qd Jh (straight, ace high).
Outcome: MP1 wins 17 BB. 

Probably shouldn't even have been in this one. The 3rd A brought me to the end but I again I probably should have just dropped pf.
------------------------------

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players) 
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds.

Turn: (5.75 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players) 
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players) 
Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB
Main Pot: 9.75 BB, between Hero and MP3. > Pot won by MP3 (9.75 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Kh Ac (high card, ace).
MP3 shows Js Th (two pair, jacks and tens).
Outcome: MP3 wins 9.75 BB. 

Another one I should have let go at the raise...
------------------------------

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button 3-bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players) 
Hero bets, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, CO raises, Button 3-bets, Hero folds, CO caps, Button calls.

Turn: (13.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players) 
CO bets, Button raises, CO 3-bets, Button calls $0.12 (All-In).

River: (18.37 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in) 

Final Pot: 18.37 BB
Main Pot: 17.49 BB, between Button and CO. > Pot won by CO (17.49 BB).
Pot 2: 0.87 BB, overbet by CO.

Results in white below: 
CO shows Th 7s (full house, sevens full of nines).
Button shows Ac As (two pair, aces and nines).
Outcome: CO wins 18.36 BB. 

I'm hoping this is considered a good fold but the way my night went I'm not sure.

Well there's always tonight to rebound... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

afk

04-26-2004, 11:45 AM

First off, I don't think you absoluetely butchered any of these hands. I'll take a stab at some advice, though there are some situations where I'm not sure what I would do.

Hand 1: I would have bet the flop. But when there's no help on the turn I think it's close between check-calling/folding. You're getting 5.25:1 to draw a 6, or a King, and those kings aren't squeaky clean. With your crappy kicker, what are the chances you are ahead? I'm unsure on the turn. I don't like laying down top pair on the river, but I don't think the pot is large enough to justify a call. I think you'll get out-kicked too often.

Hand 2: I think the preflop limp is ok providing you believe the table is loose enough and passive enough. Does anyone 3-bet the flop here? I'd probably just call the raise due to the kicker. I think the turn and river are fine, or at least that's how I would have done it. I would have expected to be shown an ace with a better kicker, and maybe a busted straight draw.

Hand 3: I like it, personally. I would have folded to a river bet though.

Hand 4: I haven't looked at the results of this one yet. On the flop I'd put the button on a big overpair based on the preflop 3-bet, which slightly diminishes the chances of your outs being clean (not to mention the board paired). Or is the button just going crazy because he's shortstacked? The CO worries me. He called a preflop raise cold, but you have no read on him. At this level, that could mean a lot of things, but I'd put him on two medium suited cards, of which a 7 is very possible. 87s? 97s? T7s? J7s? Maybe a medium pair like 88? I don't like putting people on big reads that quickly, but a lot of the time in micros when someone all of a sudden comes alive, they've often landed a big hand. The fact that he's raising both preflop raisers says to me he's got something. I probably would have folded too.

The_Eye

04-26-2004, 01:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
First off, I don't think you absoluetely butchered any of these hands. I'll take a stab at some advice, though there are some situations where I'm not sure what I would do.

Hand 1: I would have bet the flop. But when there's no help on the turn I think it's close between check-calling/folding. You're getting 5.25:1 to draw a 6, or a King, and those kings aren't squeaky clean. With your crappy kicker, what are the chances you are ahead? I'm unsure on the turn. I don't like laying down top pair on the river, but I don't think the pot is large enough to justify a call. I think you'll get out-kicked too often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the input. I figured on this one a bet ought to tell me if someone else had a K, which I figured was the case on the raise. I agree about not laying down top pair, I had a strong feeling I was going to be shown a higher K, and sure enough... yet another case of if he'd actually raised that hand pf I would have bailed a lot sooner. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: I think the preflop limp is ok providing you believe the table is loose enough and passive enough. Does anyone 3-bet the flop here? I'd probably just call the raise due to the kicker. I think the turn and river are fine, or at least that's how I would have done it. I would have expected to be shown an ace with a better kicker, and maybe a busted straight draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this one again I expected to see a better Ace. Which I guess is the danger of playing those low Ax hands.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 3: I like it, personally. I would have folded to a river bet though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I often have this problem w/AKo, not sure how to play it when you don't hit anything.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 4: I haven't looked at the results of this one yet. On the flop I'd put the button on a big overpair based on the preflop 3-bet, which slightly diminishes the chances of your outs being clean (not to mention the board paired). Or is the button just going crazy because he's shortstacked? The CO worries me. He called a preflop raise cold, but you have no read on him. At this level, that could mean a lot of things, but I'd put him on two medium suited cards, of which a 7 is very possible. 87s? 97s? T7s? J7s? Maybe a medium pair like 88? I don't like putting people on big reads that quickly, but a lot of the time in micros when someone all of a sudden comes alive, they've often landed a big hand. The fact that he's raising both preflop raisers says to me he's got something. I probably would have folded too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I basically felt that the backdoor nut flush and two potentially unclean overcards weren't enough in the face of what I felt was likely already trips and maybe an OESD as well.

Thanks again for the advice. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

afk

04-26-2004, 03:14 PM

Don't take what I said as the be all and end all though. I'm sure there are things I've missed or gotten wrong that some other people will pick up on.

Lost Wages

04-26-2004, 06:31 PM

Hand 1)
I would have checked the flop. If one of the EP's bet I would have folded since a bet from the middle of the field most likely means a king and it's highly unlikely that you have anyone outkickered. If it was checked to the CO and he bet, I would have checkraised since a bet from the last to act is always suspicious. You checkraise to try and get the 2 checkers to fold and hopefully get headsup with the CO who could have anything. Of course, in this case since he had AK it would have just cost you more money /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Since you bet and were raised, I would seriously consider folding right there. There are no obvious draws for him to be freecard raising.

Hand 2)
Again, I would check the flop. You have top pair crappy kicker on a very scary board. See what the action behind you is before commiting to the hand.

Once you make trip aces, you have to see it through.

Hand 3)
Fold to the turn raise.

Hand 4)
Check the flop.

Lost Wages

The_Eye

04-26-2004, 10:37 PM

It's kinda ironic, I've generally been too passive in the past, now it seems I've swung a bit too far the other way. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Well it's all a learning process, thanks for the input.