AQ on scary board

[bakku]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed)
I'm new to the table so no reads, but CO seems a bit loose

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 17.50 BB, between Hero, CO and SB.</font>

[sublime]

if CO is smarter than the average fish, its quite possible he hit his flush on the flop and didnt want to scare away the blinds. I would probably check/call the river here, but I am not sure if thats weak thinking.

[thirddan]

if you put CO on a flush why are you check/calling the river?

I thought a river check raise might be in order, but if CO has a flush he probably checks it through...i like the river bet...

Anyone 3betting the river?

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
quite possible

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the chance that he might have the flush would scare me into check/calling down the river. It is probably weak thiking though. What do we put CO on?

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
if CO is smarter than the average fish, its quite possible he hit his flush on the flop and didnt want to scare away the blinds. I would probably check/call the river here, but I am not sure if thats weak thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

I put CO on a slowplayed flush, which is exactly why I bet the river. A flush would check behind on the river but would most likely call a bet.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that although CO is a bit loose, she isn't a LAG..Her raises mean something

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the chance that he might have the flush would scare me into check/calling down the river. It is probably weak thiking though. What do we put CO on?

[/ QUOTE ]

If CO had a flush why would I want to check/call the river? I have a boat, albeit an ugly one

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
I put CO on a slowplayed flush, which is exactly why I bet the river. A flush would check behind on the river but would most likely call a bet.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that although CO is a bit loose, she isn't a LAG..Her raises mean something


[/ QUOTE ]

Poor board reading by me, sorry /images/graemlins/smile.gif it's early.

Nice move, but know that I realize we are more than likely ahead, why not 3-bet the river?

[sublime]

lol, we were typing at the same time /images/graemlins/smile.gif

See my other response...

Now I have caffeine in me...Lets Rock /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice move, but know that I realize we are more than likely ahead, why not 3-bet the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since CO is somewhat sane I can't picture her being dumb enough to raise the river with a flush. So what else could she have? The only other hand that I could put her on involved a Q or a 9. I'm chopping the pot with a Q so there's no point in 3-betting. If she caps my 3-bet I'll throw up and pay off the quad 9's. I don't see her being crazy enough to be raising my river bet with a hand that I can beat or won't chop with. Thoughts?

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone 3betting the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought about it for a second then decided against it, I would cry if I had to pay off a cap even with SB calling the whole way.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
Since CO is somewhat sane I can't picture her being dumb enough to raise the river with a flush. So what else could she have? The only other hand that I could put her on involved a Q or a 9. I'm chopping the pot with a Q so there's no point in 3-betting. If she caps my 3-bet I'll throw up and pay off the quad 9's. I don't see her being crazy enough to be raising my river bet with a hand that I can beat or won't chop with. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, I guess the risk does not justify the possible reward. This is definitly situational though(as are most poker situations lol), as there are plenty of Party fish who would call a 3-bet with a flush.

[kenewbie]

There is no way on earth I would 3-bet the river here without a seriously good read. You have bet into him on all streets, on the river you bet out again after being raised on the turn. You are screaming "I BEAT A FLUSH" at the top of your lungs.. and get raised.

Even if you initially put him on a flush, when raised on the river you have to backtrack and see that a 9 would be played exactly the same way.

k

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
Fair enough, I guess the risk does not justify the possible reward. This is definitly situational though(as are most poker situations lol), as there are plenty of Party fish who would call a 3-bet with a flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think with SB calling down the whole way it was close whether I should have 3-bet or not, anyone else have thoughts on the river play?

[Shalara]

I would cap the river.

You described her as somewhat sane. While she might have four nines, she called your raise pre-flop. I could see an A9 or K9 doing that, but would she call your bet on the flop with that hand? If she had the A or K of hearts, I could see it. Of course, she'd be betting into a possible full house or flush on the turn with that hand.

While she might have four 9s, I think it more likely that she filled up on the turn. I'd expect to see something like a pair of deuces in her hand.

How did it end?

[Raiser]

I'd 3-bet the river.

If she is a decent player, then what hand with a 9 would she cold-call a pre-flop raise with? Similarly, she would 3-bet you with KK or AA. I think worst case scenario, you are chopping, so you might as well bet it up.

I don't buy those that argue about increasing the rake being a good reason to not bet/raise in these situations. People will call with worse hands enough to make it worth the last bet IMO.

[DoctorDrew]

[ QUOTE ]

Since CO is somewhat sane I can't picture her being dumb enough to raise the river with a flush. So what else could she have? The only other hand that I could put her on involved a Q or a 9. I'm chopping the pot with a Q so there's no point in 3-betting. If she caps my 3-bet I'll throw up and pay off the quad 9's. I don't see her being crazy enough to be raising my river bet with a hand that I can beat or won't chop with. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, but QQ isn't completely out of the question, is it?. I see people coldcalling PF with KK, AA in LP, so doing the same with QQ really wouldn't faze me at this point. So, I see no other action than to call.

[sfer]

Checkraise the river and I would seriously think about capping if 3-bet. Checkraise because you want another bet out of the SB. CO stinks of a slowplayed flush. And if he has the 9, oh well.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
The only other hand that I could put her on involved a Q or a 9. I'm chopping the pot with a Q so there's no point in 3-betting.

[/ QUOTE ]

The SB tagging along makes 3-betting worthwhile, I think.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
I think with SB calling down the whole way it was close whether I should have 3-bet or not, anyone else have thoughts on the river play?

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my thought. But I think that the overcall is fine. Best case you are probably splitting with at least one of the other two.

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
Checkraise the river and I would seriously think about capping if 3-bet. Checkraise because you want another bet out of the SB. CO stinks of a slowplayed flush. And if he has the 9, oh well.

[/ QUOTE ]

CO was a bit loose, but she made sane raises that meant something. Do you think she would actually bet this river with a flush?

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
If she is a decent player, then what hand with a 9 would she cold-call a pre-flop raise with?

[/ QUOTE ]

She wasn't really a decent player. She was a bit loose but when she raised it meant she had something.


[ QUOTE ]
I don't buy those that argue about increasing the rake being a good reason to not bet/raise in these situations. People will call with worse hands enough to make it worth the last bet IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree with you about betting/raising when there is a possible chop, I don't think this is one of those situations. Either I'm way ahead or way behind here, with a very small chance of chopping.

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
While she might have four 9s, I think it more likely that she filled up on the turn. I'd expect to see something like a pair of deuces in her hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think she'd be crazy enough to raise again on the river with 9's over 2's, I think it's quite obvious I have at least a Q..but it's a possibility

[bakku]

So like I've been saying, CO was a loose but sane player. Her raises meant something and she wouldn't be raising if she didn't think she was ahead.

When she raised me on the turn my immediate thought was a slowplayed flush. When I fill up on the river and she raises me again I have to reevaulate what she could possibly have. What hand would raise me on the turn that would raise me again on the river? A flush would be nuts to raise on the river and she's too passive to be raising the turn with only a Q. She would have 3-bet preflop with KK/AA. The only other hand that I think she would play this way is a 9. IMO, the chances of her having that case 9 were just too great to make a 3-bet (to string SB along) worthwhile.

Sure enough, CO shows K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, and SB has 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[MicroBob]

well done. you used your reasoning and instincts and knowledge of the player to come to a solid decision.

bummer about the hand....but at least you saved yourself 2 bets here.

and i probably would have capped and cringed.

[Shalara]

Good read then! I would be capping it &amp; getting killed /images/graemlins/grin.gif