GuyOnTilt
04-26-2004, 04:07 AM
For all the MM fans and haters out there,
I know the guy's taken a lot of grief from everybody here, but I never really formed an opinion of the guy's play myself. I mean, they don't show everything that happens on TV and I don't know Tourney NL very well anyways, so who am I to judge? But limit hold'em! Now limit hold'em is something I do know! I sat with Chris for 4 hours in a 20 game at the Mirage this weekend, and I can very confidently say that he is not a winning player in all but perhaps the softest games at that level. He's a very nice guy. Friendly, funny, enjoyable to have a conversation with. But the guy just can't play limit.
Fact #1 : Chris is far too loose and far too passive preflop. He would very frequently cold-call EP raises, and more than a couple times open-limped from MP after 3 or more folds, once with J9o. He never once raised preflop, and just flat called my open-raise from the CO with KQs in the SB. It's not like he's the fishiest of players preflop at any table, but he definitely losing money there.
Fact #2 : Far too loose on the flop. He would very frequently call a single bet on the flop and fold on the turn in small pots. Not that there couldn't be hands where that's correct, but twice headsup against me he made horrible flop calls that lead me to believe that the multiple other instances were similar. In one hand, I open-raise with KQo from MP. He cold-calls in the CO, both blinds call. Flop comes AK4r. Checked to me and I bet. Chris calls, blinds fold. Turn is a 5. I check, he checks. River is a 4. I check, he checks and announes one pair. I table my hand and it's good. In another hand, I raise two limpers in LMP with AQs. He calls from the BB and limpers call. Flop comes: KQ6 with two diamonds. Checked to me and I bet. Chris calls, limpers fold. Turn is a K of diamonds. He checks, I bet, he calls. River is a low blank and he checks. I consider betting, but he subtely looks like he's about to reach for a large stack so I check through. He tables 88 with a diamond and I'm good.
Fact #3 : He sucks at winning pots against me. /images/graemlins/grin.gif We were in 5 pots together and I was 5-0. When he racked up to leave he said to the table, "Just for the record, I never beat this kid over here one time." Very nice and friendly guy. I only took offense one time when he told me I didn't look a day over 18, which I just laughed off as I always do when people ask for me to be carded (those bastards).
Conclusion : Chris Moneymaker, while a very cool guy, sucks at limit hold'em. So now I don't have to make a guess when it comes up anymore (which is pretty often since everybody loves talking about the guy). I can very honestly say that I would enjoy him being in my game any day.
GoT
I know the guy's taken a lot of grief from everybody here, but I never really formed an opinion of the guy's play myself. I mean, they don't show everything that happens on TV and I don't know Tourney NL very well anyways, so who am I to judge? But limit hold'em! Now limit hold'em is something I do know! I sat with Chris for 4 hours in a 20 game at the Mirage this weekend, and I can very confidently say that he is not a winning player in all but perhaps the softest games at that level. He's a very nice guy. Friendly, funny, enjoyable to have a conversation with. But the guy just can't play limit.
Fact #1 : Chris is far too loose and far too passive preflop. He would very frequently cold-call EP raises, and more than a couple times open-limped from MP after 3 or more folds, once with J9o. He never once raised preflop, and just flat called my open-raise from the CO with KQs in the SB. It's not like he's the fishiest of players preflop at any table, but he definitely losing money there.
Fact #2 : Far too loose on the flop. He would very frequently call a single bet on the flop and fold on the turn in small pots. Not that there couldn't be hands where that's correct, but twice headsup against me he made horrible flop calls that lead me to believe that the multiple other instances were similar. In one hand, I open-raise with KQo from MP. He cold-calls in the CO, both blinds call. Flop comes AK4r. Checked to me and I bet. Chris calls, blinds fold. Turn is a 5. I check, he checks. River is a 4. I check, he checks and announes one pair. I table my hand and it's good. In another hand, I raise two limpers in LMP with AQs. He calls from the BB and limpers call. Flop comes: KQ6 with two diamonds. Checked to me and I bet. Chris calls, limpers fold. Turn is a K of diamonds. He checks, I bet, he calls. River is a low blank and he checks. I consider betting, but he subtely looks like he's about to reach for a large stack so I check through. He tables 88 with a diamond and I'm good.
Fact #3 : He sucks at winning pots against me. /images/graemlins/grin.gif We were in 5 pots together and I was 5-0. When he racked up to leave he said to the table, "Just for the record, I never beat this kid over here one time." Very nice and friendly guy. I only took offense one time when he told me I didn't look a day over 18, which I just laughed off as I always do when people ask for me to be carded (those bastards).
Conclusion : Chris Moneymaker, while a very cool guy, sucks at limit hold'em. So now I don't have to make a guess when it comes up anymore (which is pretty often since everybody loves talking about the guy). I can very honestly say that I would enjoy him being in my game any day.
GoT