Pocket Pairs

[Doctaprofit]

Hey just wanted to make sure my understanding is correct.. say you are cold calling 3 or 4 people with a pocket pair, lets say pocket 55.. by this time the pot is large and on the flop you have not hit your 5, to draw to the turn you would need better then 11 to 1 for this to be profitable or with implied odds taken into account can this be done more profitably to a lesser odd degree..
Another Question, when is it okay to draw with a 3 flush and two overcards after the flop and with 1 overcard (say Ace 5 suited)

[daryn]

actually if you miss the flop with your 55, there are only 2 remaining 5's out of 47 unseen cards remaining, therefore you're 45-2 or 22.5-1 against hitting, not 11-1.

[Doctaprofit]

your right... i havent been taking that into account.. and so assuming the fact that if u dont hit on the turn u will fold... then u need 22-1 or better to correctly call?

[Doctaprofit]

actually are u taking into account the fact that the bet size is half because it would be a bet on the flop not the turn??

[daryn]

the 22-1 against figure i quoted was just the chances against you making your hand. not including implied odds, the pot would have to be offering you 22-1 on the flop for you to see the turn. it has nothing to do with the bet doubling.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
the pot would have to be offering you 22-1 on the flop for you to see the turn. it has nothing to do with the bet doubling.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that the bet doubles only affects your implied odds, so you can usually call if you are getting 18-1 or better.

[daryn]

agreed, but that's why i had said "not including implied odds" before i said what you quoted /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Doctaprofit]

okay so its safe to say in most situations fold your pocket pair to a bet on the flop if it doesnt hit a set and isnt top pair...

[daryn]

i assume you mean fold to a bet on the flop if you don't hit your set and your pair isn't an overpair?

i think that's safe to say. sometimes though with preflop raising a situation could occur where it would be correct to see the turn card and see if you can spike your set.

[Ben]

"No set, no bet."

It'll serve you well...

[THE OUTLAW]

Im going to expand on the "no set, no bet" comment.

First of all you shouldnt be calling 3 or 4 bets w/ any pocket pair other than AA or KK. Depending on the players and the situation QQ can definitely be a call also.

If you choose to ignore this advice and are facing a flop bet w/ 55 the odds are 22-1 against hitting another one. Implied odds do come into play but just make sure that if it looks like you are getting the right price make sure that there are no draws out. You may be drawing to only 1 out. That and you are facing redraws.

THE OUTLAW