Can I Fold Any of These Hands? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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WLC4Ever

04-25-2004, 11:31 AM

Bankroll is dwindling because of chasing hands like these, but with the size of the pot I have to right?

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero calls, Button raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players) 
BB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls, Button raises, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.20 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players) 
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (13.20 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players) 
BB bets, UTG+2 folds, Hero folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 15.20 BB

Results in white below: 
Button shows Ac Qc (two pair, queens and jacks).
BB shows Qh 6d (two pair, queens and jacks).
Outcome: Button wins 15.20 BB. 

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players) 
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, MP2 calls, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players) 
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (12.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players) 
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 raises, Hero folds, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 shows 6d 4d (straight, seven high).
MP2 shows 3d Kc (flush, king high).
Outcome: MP2 wins 16.50 BB. 

And eventually this comes along
Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero calls, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 folds, MP1 3-bets, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (16.40 SB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players) 
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

Turn: (8.20 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players) 
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 raises, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 caps, CO folds, Hero calls.

River: (19.20 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players) 
Hero bets, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 21.20 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Ad 2d (flush, ace high).
MP1 shows Qc Jd (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 21.20 BB.

arfsananto

04-25-2004, 11:52 AM

Hand 1- BB bets into PF raiser, then the PF raiser raises again. I think this hand on the flop is either raise or fold. I would have raised, and folded to the Button's reraise (if he did). But if I didn't raise, I would have folded to Button's raise.
BB could have been betting with bottom pair, ten w/ worse kicker, or what he had. Button raised PF and liked the flop.

Hand 2- I think you had to call this one down.

Hand 3- I would have folded pre-flop. Ax suited is like small pairs; want lots of callers, see flop cheap, and good flop.
That's why its risky to play from EP. You don;t know how many callers you will get, and you don't want to pay more than one bet to see the flop.
I might have called one raise with it, but not two cold.

sweetjazz

04-25-2004, 12:34 PM

Hand 1:
You should raise preflop. Then button's reraise preflop will further let you know about the strength of his hand. The flop is tricky, as you have second pair with a good kicker. There's a good chance you have BB beat (plus you have some backdoor draws plus 5 usual outs to improve), so I think a raise is in order. Button may fold AJ, something you'd like. Now if button reraises you, you know you are behind. With all the money in the pot, you should call his bet, but plan to fold if unimproved on the turn.

But you did improve on the turn, catching a great card giving you lots of outs. So you have an easy check-call on the river.

Hand 2:
I like completing in the SB, unless the BB is hyperaggressive. I think you can check-fold the flop. Yes, you made an open-ended straight draw, but there's a flush draw on the board and a 6 gives you the dummy end of the straight. With all of the betting and calling going on in front of you, there's a good chance that someone has 2 clubs and it's also possible that someone has a 7. (Notice that a lot of players will always limp in when dealt 76, suited or not. Plus a lot of people will call the flop with a 7 and another overcard.) So your outs are dirty and the pot is small...fold and wait for a better opportunity. You're either pushing a marginal edge or a pretty hefty underdog in this hand.

Hand 3:
If your table is this aggressive preflop, then you should fold this hand in EP. (If this was an unusually aggressive round of preflop betting, then your play might be right.) Axs is a hand that wants to see the flop for one bet, or two bets if everybody is in. Seeing the flop for 3 bets with only five people in is a long-term loser.

Normally, you should bet the flop. With preflop raisers to your left, going for a check raise here is sometimes a good play that just didn't work this time. Given that people will often call 2 cold on the flop in these games, betting out might be right. If you get raised, there's a good chance it'll be 4 players to the turn for 3 bets. And you might (though probably not) get a free card on the turn if your draw misses.

You might try for a check-raise on the river if MP1 is as maniacal as he appears to be from this hand. I hope you made a note that he made it 3 bets from MP with QJo! This is the kind of opponent you want to play against, though you have to be patient and wait for premium hands against him. (Don't try to beat a maniac with drawing hands like Axs.)

I'm pretty inexperienced myself, so take my advice with a grain of salt and a willingness to disagree with me if you think I have made an error in my thought process.

sweetjazz

04-25-2004, 12:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But you did improve on the turn, catching a great card giving you lots of outs. So you have an easy check-call on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoops -- I meant an easy check-call on the turn. When you don't improve, check-fold the river.

SoCalPat

04-25-2004, 12:38 PM

Hand 1: Wouldn't have done it any other way.

Hand 2: Fold to a flop bet. You have nothing, and could improve and still lose. Get outta town here.

Hand 3: I'll play Axs from anywhere ... I need to change tables if I can't regularly limp with it. That said, I'd probably muck this preflop as well once it's two cold to me.

But since you played it, you must bet out the flop here. Your lack of position is actually a great asset here, as you have two PF raisers to act behind you who might do the raising for you and completely disguise your hand. It would be very difficult for anyone to put you on a flush draw, so when you go Yahtzee! on the turn, your opponents won't give you credit for a flush, when in fact, you're holding the nuts.

With so many players in the field, you're getting a great return on your investment by betting the flop ... even if it's capped and everyone stays in. In fact, if it were 3-bet to me, I'd go ahead and cap it if there were at least 3 other players in the pot.

bisonbison

04-25-2004, 01:04 PM

Hand 1: Looks alright.

Hand 2: Bet the flop.

Hand 3: fold preflop when it's 2 back to you. Bet the flop.

Ralph Wiggum

04-25-2004, 01:15 PM