A thought on PP in the SB

[sublime]

This is a situation wher I am confused. I dont want to be dominated, but if I hit my set on the flop the payoff is even nicer than usual.

Thoughts please /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button folds, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players) </font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 13.50 BB, between CO and UTG.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by UTG (13.50 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG shows Js Ad (one pair, jacks).
CO shows Qd Jc (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: UTG wins 13.50 BB. </font>

[bisonbison]

Fold. You're not getting the odds to hit your set. You have to extract a lot of money to make up for that extra half-bet, and you're not in a great position to do it.

[StellarWind]

I'd call in this type of game unless I really didn't believe the BB would play. I think you can get paid. You bet your set on the flop expecting PF raiser to do the "big bad pair" dance by raising. You call the raise to avoid trashing the field. Once you see the turn you bet or maybe checkraise. The bet represents the TP stop-n-go maneuver so often used by small pairs against overcards. Usually you can string this out for a fair amount of money. Sometimes you get a big overpair to swallow the hook and score a home run.

[Trix]

If you call here you need to make about 6BBs when you win (Actually some more for the times you dont win with your set) or 3 more than you get from preflop.

I dont think that is a problem with 2 players between you and the raiser, especially not if he is the type who likes to raise overcards on the flop, allowing you to 3bet his free card play.

[Nottom]

I think a call here is usually OK. The pot is 9 SBs even without the BB calling. You put in 1.5 SBs so thats 5-1. A raised pot usually means you should expect good action post flop so you can count on making the 3BBs or whatever you need post flop with no problem if you spike your set.

[bisonbison]

Apparently, I'm playing a mite tight in the SB. Will have to take a look at cold-calling raises with pairs if there are limpers in.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently, I'm playing a mite tight in the SB. Will have to take a look at cold-calling raises with pairs if there are limpers in.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I would strongly consider cold-calling from the button as well.

[bisonbison]

I would think that the SB would actually be better against a LP raiser. On the button, assuming you're the first coldcaller, I think it would be much harder to trap the limpers for bets.

[Nottom]

The SB is certainly a better spot to be in this case, thats why I feel the SB call is a pretty easy one if I would consider a call from the button which costs me an extra .5SBs and is in a worse position relative to the raiser.

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
I would think that the SB would actually be better against a LP raiser. On the button, assuming you're the first coldcaller, I think it would be much harder to trap the limpers for bets.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe better if I make my set. But it would be nice to have the button when I don't. You may have winning chances if you can isolate the overcards on the flop. This is definitely a matter of reading the board and the players. You can't adopt a blanket policy of aggression here.