My first couple of hands played... [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Dieter01

04-24-2004, 05:23 PM

I saw someone before posting their first 5 hands played at a table and I will do the same. I am trying to work my way up to beginner status from starting-out poker player n00b, so I have probably made some bad mistakes. But give it to me... Won't learn otherwise! I have included some comments of my own, just to see how I am thinking as opposed to you more experienced guys.

Hand 1:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players) 
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players) 
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB
Main Pot: 5.75 BB, won by UTG.
Pot 2: 1 BB, overbet by UTG.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. UTG wins 6.75 BB. 

My thoughts:
I was trying to steal the pot pre-flop. Don't normally raise with AJo. Should I have folded after the flop or was it OK to continue with my bluff? Any point where I should have backed off?

-----------------------------------------

Hand 2:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players) 
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players) 
UTG+2 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB
Main Pot: 3.50 BB, won by UTG+2.
Pot 2: 1 BB, overbet by UTG+2.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. UTG+2 wins 4.50 BB. 

Comment:
Pretty sure I should have folded after the flop. But lets say there was no flush draw out there... Would it have been OK to stay with two overcards and an inside straight draw then?

-------------------------------------

Hand 3:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players) 
BB checks, UTG bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players) 
UTG bets, MP2 folds, Hero raises, UTG calls.

River: (11.25 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players) 
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB
Main Pot: 13.25 BB, between UTG and Hero. > Pot won by Hero (13.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
UTG shows 2h 3s (flush, king high).
Hero shows Ac Ah (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins 13.25 BB. 

My thoughts:
Its a crime not to raise the river... Can't believe I didn't do that. I think it was OK to raise the turn to, even though he could have had a flush at that point.

Alternatively, what if he had re-raised me on the turn... Since I have a flush draw to I would have called. But then lets assume a blank hits on the river and he comes out betting. I think I would still call even though he probably has me beat. Would that be correct?

-------------------------------------------

Hand 4:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero raises, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players) 
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players) 
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players) 
Hero checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB
Main Pot: 6.25 BB, between Hero and CO. > Pot won by CO (6.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Jd Js (two pair, jacks and tens).
CO shows Ad 7c (flush, ace high).
Outcome: CO wins 6.25 BB. 

My thoughts:
Should have check/folded after the flop. And I should have definitely folded the turn.

-------------------------------------

Hand 5:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players) 
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (3 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players) 
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (5 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players) 
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB
Main Pot: 7 BB, between Button and Hero. > Pot won by Hero (7 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Ts Tc (three of a kind, tens).
Button shows Jc Kc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 7 BB. 

My thouhts:
Really not sure about this one. I don't like folding after the flop to an overcard just like that and the button never bets back into me. Am I being to aggressive here before the lucky river?

sublime

04-24-2004, 05:29 PM

Hand one, the raise with AJo is fine. You want to make the limpers who will limp with Ax pay. The turn bet is not good, I would check/fold.

Bluffing is a word you want to forget when you are at microlimits.

vulturesrow

04-24-2004, 05:55 PM

Hand 1:
Fold after the flop..

Hand 2:
Fold after the flop even if there wasnt a flush draw.

Hand 3:
Played pretty well, I think raising the turn is fine in this case.

Hand 4:
Agree with your assessment

Hand 5:
This one is a little interesting to me. I wouldve expected the guy to be a little more aggressive holding the Kings. I probably wouldve stayed with it because they way he is betting makes me think he is on a flush draw in which case you need to make it expensive for him to stay in the pot. I thought this one was played pretty solidly.

Let me caveat my comments by saying that my experience level is about the same as yours and so should be taken with a grain of salt. Thanks for posting though because it helps all of us novices to see the kind of mistakes we all make.

Chris

sublime

04-24-2004, 06:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1:
Fold after the flop..

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

vulturesrow

04-24-2004, 06:50 PM

Because the flop doesnt hit him at all.. actually I wouldve checked and taken the free card and then see what happens on the turn...does that make more sense?

Chris

sublime

04-24-2004, 06:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Because the flop doesnt hit him at all.. actually I wouldve checked and taken the free card and then see what happens on the turn...does that make more sense?

[/ QUOTE ]

No

He was the preflop aggressor, he needs to bet the flop to show how strong his hand is which in turn sets up the free card opp once the turn card hits.

He SHOULD have checked the turn thru.

vulturesrow

04-24-2004, 07:14 PM

I am not sure I understand why pre-flop aggression obligates you to bet the flop. The flop doesnt hit him at all. If he likes what the flop brings that of course continuing to bet makes sense. But he doesnt have a strong hand after the flop. I am just not following your logic here (which Im sure has to do with the fact that I have about 3 working brain cells /images/graemlins/wink.gif).

chris

sublime

04-24-2004, 07:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am not sure I understand why pre-flop aggression obligates you to bet the flop. The flop doesnt hit him at all. If he likes what the flop brings that of course continuing to bet makes sense. But he doesnt have a strong hand after the flop. I am just not following your logic here (which Im sure has to do with the fact that I have about 3 working brain cells ).

[/ QUOTE ]

He is not obligated to do anything, just beacuse the flop missed him doesn't mean it hit somebody else. He could very well still have the best hand.

Nottom

04-24-2004, 07:21 PM

Hand 1: This is how I would have played it.

Hand 2: Again, this looks fine. I might raise the flop, I might not.

Hand 3: I have to assume you thought you had 44 here on the river. Some times Aces and 4s look alike.

Hand 4: I don't know how you can call this turn bet. I'd prefer a raise to a call. Check-folding the flop is probably best.

Hand 5: Raise preflop, the rest is fine.

Nottom

04-24-2004, 07:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am not sure I understand why pre-flop aggression obligates you to bet the flop. The flop doesnt hit him at all. If he likes what the flop brings that of course continuing to bet makes sense. But he doesnt have a strong hand after the flop. I am just not following your logic here (which Im sure has to do with the fact that I have about 3 working brain cells ).

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you assume the flop hit his opponent? He's heads up and likely still has the best hand with A-high.

sublime

04-24-2004, 07:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: This is how I would have played it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not doubt your reasoning here, but why do we bet the turn here?

Note: the turn is a weak part of my game (well one of them anyways) /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Nottom

04-24-2004, 07:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He SHOULD have checked the turn thru.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you know how many low-limit players will call the flop bet with any two cards? Unless he has a reason to think this player is not one of them, then I like the turn bet. If he's called on the turn then betting the river without improvement is out of the question.

sublime

04-24-2004, 07:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you know how many low-limit players will call the flop bet with any two cards? Unless he has a reason to think this player is not one of them, then I like the turn bet. If he's called on the turn then betting the river without improvement is out of the question.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I just dont feel comfortable(yet) betting on the later streets with nothing but overcards (one which may not be good)

I am more along the lines of until he proves hes a idiot assume your oppenenet at least has commen sense. The more I see the more that theory goes out the window.

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Nottom

04-24-2004, 07:35 PM

With a couple opponents I would check but against just one who hasn't shown me any reason to think he has a hand, i will bet here. It's basically a weak semi-bluff where you may have the best hand, but if you take the pot down more than 20% of the time you are getting value as a "bluff".

In my experience you will take it down with a bet somewhere around 15-25% of the time, you will be checkraised and fold like 5-10%, you will be called and improve to win about 10%, you be called by a worse hand about 5-10%, and be called by a better hand and lose the rest of the time. Add all that up and the bet is a profitable one.

sublime

04-24-2004, 07:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In my experience you will take it down with a bet somewhere around 15-25% of the time, you will be checkraised and fold like 5-10%, you will be called and improve to win about 10%, you be called by a worse hand about 5-10%, and be called by a better hand and lose the rest of the time. Add all that up and the bet is a profitable one

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahhhhh, thanks for the reasoning...... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I learn something new here everyday /images/graemlins/smile.gif

vulturesrow

04-24-2004, 07:50 PM

Thanks everyone, great discussion.

Chris

Dieter01

04-24-2004, 07:56 PM

Yeah, I really appreciate the swift and well argumented feedback from all you guys.

Glad to see I am not playing horribly at least. About ready to call myself a beginner soon, hehe!