JJ vs. a 2+2er

[bdk3clash]

UTG in this hand is 2+2er JDErickson (tight, aggressive, good.)

Standard play preflop? What should I do on the flop?

My thoughts and results later.

Party Poker 1/2 (10 handed)
bdk3clash has J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif and is MP3

JDErickson raises, bdk3clash 3-bets, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, JDErickson calls

Flop(12 SB): K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif

BB checks, JDErickson bets, bdk3clash...

[chesspain]

Since I assume it's unlikely JD would have failed to cap with AA/KK preflop with three others already in the pot, you only need to be worried about AK/KQ/QQ (from him at least). I don't think his bet necessarily means he has a K; he could easily be betting with AQ/TT/QQ (although the latter is not real good for you /images/graemlins/grin.gif), and hoping that you'll oblige by raising in order to knock out the others.

I believe that this is a classic raise or fold decision--and I think that raising is better.

[JDErickson]

I would cap with AK.

Hope to see some more responses to this as iwould like to throw out my side of the play and see what people think also.

Jim

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
I would cap with AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[JDErickson]

Because there is a chance I have the best hand and if I get an A or K on flop I probably would have the best hand.

It has done quite well for me playing this way at the limits I play.

Jim

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Because there is a chance I have the best hand and if I get an A or K on flop I probably would have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even against a known 2+2er?

[JDErickson]

[ QUOTE ]
Even against a known 2+2er?


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I'm glad you asked that. I posted a question in SS forum along these lines. Would you rather be 3bet by a passive fish or 2+2er? Thats one part of my game I am still working on, dealing with the 2+2ers and the like. As I move up in limits I know I will be facing better players more often. In these circumstances capping AKo PF may be the wrong move.

SO to answer your question. Yes I probably would at this stage in my learning career. Its worked for me in the past. If I start getting spanked with this strategy than I will adjust.

Jim

[Trix]

With more than one opponent I cap AK close to always.

I fold to his flop bet. It´s KQ or QQ-TT, I dont think he bets AQ. If you are ahead of him, you might be behind to one of the coldcallers anyway.
I´m not sure that you can move him off QQ either.

[thirddan]

i think this is a raise or fold situation...i would most likely fold...since there are two other players in the hand you have to worry about...You may have JD beat but what about BB/CO (no reads?)? Would JD bet 99/TT/AQ/AJ into a 2+2er and CO without a K? I can't see your JJ being ahead here much of the time...I would save my money for a hand that is against a weaker player instead of against a good player and a questionable situation...

[StellarWind]

I am assuming that each of you recognizes the other and that you both know that.

I would raise the flop in hopes of dropping the field and then call JD down. This is a great bluffing flop and the bet doesn't tell me much about JD's hand beyond what I already knew from preflop.

Against a less aggressive player I would fold out of fear that he wouldn't open raise and flop bet with most of the hands that I am counting on him having (e.g. AQ, AJ, ATs, JJ-99). I would also be much more certain that a more passive player would not cap with QQ or AK.

[sthief09]

He either has KQ or you're way ahead. He could've completely missed with AQ, or is hoping TT is good, but I think he's smart enough to know that when you 3-bet a king-high board was likely to hit you really hard. I'm seeing KQ, because he bet into you to test if you have AK.

Or he knows you're a thinking player and won't put him on AA/KK/maybe AK/QQ if he doesn't cap.

[bdk3clash]

I folded. JDErickson raised but did not cap preflop when presented the opportunity. When he bet the flop, I thought it was extremely unlikely for me to be ahead. If he was "putting a move" on me, good for him.

Not capping preflop after raising UTG makes me think he has AK, KQ, AQ, AJ, or TT, or may be getting cute with AA/KK/QQ. It seemed unlikely he was betting with anything worse than JJ, so I folded. It seemed straightforward at the time, and it still does.

He had KQo, if that matters to any of y'all.

[chief444]

FWIW, I would also cap in this situation with A-K. You have two other callers as well as the other 2+2er.

[JDErickson]

Now that we know the responses I'm wondering what others think of my play in this hand. Was the flop bet wise?

This hand actually turned out well for me as a fish called me down with K5 and I took a decent pot.

[Trix]

Yes, betting is good as you can lay down on the turn if he raise and you dont improve.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I would also cap in this situation with A-K.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess the micros might have more crazies, but what hands are you guys normally being 3-bet by in order to routinely cap AKo?